Aside From Being Self Serving, Can Religious Faith Ever Be Rational?

[Skwim]

To clarify (I guess?), is that [an example of rational faith,] though?

Yes it is. It's rational in the sense that in order for everyone on the road get along and not get into accidents it's best to observe the rules of the road, one of which is that in the incident I described I had the right of way, and that in the similar past incidents this has always been the case---the vast, vast majority of drivers did this not only to me but to other drivers as well. And it's faith because I trusted in my belief that the other driver would abide by this rule.

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[ADigitalArtist]

Yes it is. It's rational in the sense that in order for everyone on the road get along and not get into accidents it's best to observe the rules of the road, one of which is that in the incident I described I had the right of way, and that in the similar past incidents this has always been the case---the vast, vast majority of drivers did this not only to me but to other drivers as well. And it's faith because I trusted in my belief that the other driver would abide by this rule.

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And yet collisions at four way stops happen every day. Sometimes from negligence, sometimes impatience, sometimes because they didn't think the rule was as great as you did.
If it turns out your faith was misplaced, built upon assumptions that turned out to be incorrect, is it still rational?

 

[Kenny]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---


Yes

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________.
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No

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________ .

.​

Absolutely!

We use faith (rationally) every day. We even go to sleep believing we will wake up in the morning.

 

[Stevicus]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---


Yes

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________.
​

No

Because ______________________________________________________________________________________ .

.​

It's interesting that you've discounted the self-serving aspects, since that probably covers most of the reasons. For a lot of people throughout history, their 'faith' was based in trust in the idea that not believing in the correct religion could lead to torture and death.

I tend to look at faith and belief in the sense that they seem to be tied in with hope. We might "hope" for something to be true, but would that be rational? It might be similar to how someone hopes for their favorite team to win the championship; they have faith in their team to win.

 

[Windwalker]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---

It's always fascinating to me how someone sets the parameters of what something is ahead of time, before they make their cases for and against it. Why not start with the question, what actually is religious faith, and then start to ask is that rational or not?

If you define faith as your idea of it, without actually establishing that is what it is first, and then set to prove it as rationally true, ironically, that is faith rationally trying to support itself. One could argue that all rationality is in support of faith.

 

[PureX]

If faith is "self-serving" then it IS rational. The rationale being that it serves one's self.

Also, we humans tend to expand our idea of "self" to include those we love and care for, so that in serving the "self", religious faith is also very likely serving those we love and care for (or so we believe), and so it's a rational choice in that respect, also.

I find it very puzzling that so many anti-religionists, and even some religionists, find it impossible to comprehend that functionality serves as both reason and evidence for those who practice living by faith. And that it's a logical choice in the face of our profound human ignorance.

 

[PureX]

That which is rational, by definition, is not faith. That which is faith is not rational.

Wow! That's a mighty big bias you've got, there!

 

[allfoak]

Keep in mind that faith is nothing more

Is it rational to believe in things like love, beauty and justice?

 

[Sunstone]

That which is rational, by definition, is not faith. That which is faith is not rational.

Faith is belief in something in the absence of evidence, not necessarily in contradiction to evidence. The former is compatible with rational thinking. The latter is not.

Belief in something in contradiction to evidence is more properly called fideism.

 

[George-ananda]

---Keep in mind that faith is nothing more than trust in belief---

.​

I think you are trying to put down 'faith' and then ask 'why'. It's like you are insinuating someone just randomly decides to have faith in something. Typically a lot of reasoning and experiencing are often involved, so 'faith' becomes a more complicated word.

If I can become rationally convinced that a teacher is way beyond me in understanding, I can take what he says as tentatively true. That can even be called 'faith'.

 

[Sir Doom]

Yes, because it also can serve others. Consider a politician who has faith is going to gain support on the strength of their religious faith alone, that is some people refuse to vote for someone who doesn't have religious faith. Clearly this is self serving faith as you say, but it also serves the party they belong to.

Not a huge difference I'll admit.

 

[Skwim]

And yet collisions at four way stops happen every day. Sometimes from negligence, sometimes impatience, sometimes because they didn't think the rule was as great as you did.
If it turns out your faith was misplaced, built upon assumptions that turned out to be incorrect, is it still rational?

So, what do you do in such a situation, just sit there until everyone else goes through and there's no one else at the intersection? Get real.

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[Skwim]

Absolutely!

We use faith (rationally) every day. We even go to sleep believing we will wake up in the morning.

Not faith in general, but RELIGIOUS faith. Is it rational?

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[Skwim]

It's interesting that you've discounted the self-serving aspects, since that probably covers most of the reasons.

Yes it does, and purposely so.

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[ADigitalArtist]

So, what do you do in such a situation, just sit there until everyone else goes through and there's no one else at the intersection? Get real.
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You do so mostly because this kind of exchange is unavoidable while driving and driving is more beneficial to you than having proper evidence based conclusions about all the drivers you will encounter. You want something so you'll make assumptions to get it.

 

[Skwim]

It's always fascinating to me how someone sets the parameters of what something is ahead of time, before they make their cases for and against it. Why not start with the question, what actually is religious faith, and then start to ask is that rational or not?

If you don't know what religious faith is then I seriously doubt I would be interested in your answer. Simple as that.

If you define faith as your idea of it, without actually establishing that is what it is first, and then set to prove it as rationally true, ironically, that is faith rationally trying to support itself.

But I already told you what faith is in my OP. Go back and take a look.

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[Skwim]

I think you are trying to put down 'faith' and then ask 'why'.

I already showed it can be of substantial value in post 11, so why would I put it down? I wouldn't, and haven't.

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[Orbit]

What's wrong with self-serving? Faith can be very useful to a person going through hard times. Sometimes the important question to ask is not "Is this rational?" it's to ask "Is this useful?"

 

[Skwim]

You do so mostly because this kind of exchange is unavoidable while driving and driving is more beneficial to you than having proper evidence based conclusions about all the drivers you will encounter. You want something so you'll make assumptions to get it.

So is this rational or not? Or are you still sitting there until everyone else goes through and there's no one else at the intersection?

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[PureX]

What's wrong with self-serving? Faith can be very useful to a person going through hard times. Sometimes the important question to ask is not "Is this rational?" it's to ask "Is this useful?"

How is being useful NOT a rationale?