Ask a Catholic

[First Baseman]

Peter is Dwayne Johnson?

No, Peter isn't the Scorpion King.

 

[First Baseman]

Where did this come from?

Whats confusing is Catholics (like myself) believe that the Church is founded on Peter. I asked the priest about this (he didnt feel I was attacking him, thank gosh) and he said it was founded on Christ. Now, the CCC also says its founded on Christ.

However, some Catholics say it is founded on Peter. I read scripture well years ago and consulted the priest about it.

I read EVERYTHING on these threads if you believe it or not and if you follow the conversations you will notice no other Catholic feels Im attacking their faith. (Least their replies where respectful).

That and dont lump me in with Catholic-haters. I hate the Church politics not the Church sacraments and my spiritual growth in the Church.

If you read all of this with an active eye, also notice that I rephrase each persons reply so I better understand why they believe X when Im told Y.

Why is it important? To my wanting to learn and understand, I find learning different faiths give me a perspective of how my ancestors believed in their faith: they are christians.

If you think I am attacking you, you got the WRONG person. Online does no justice on peoples personalities.

Dont judge me.

Not judging you, that's why I asked the questions instead of accusing you.

So now you know that there are varying answers to the question of who the Church was built on. I would again refer you to the Bible verse that clearly states it.

It just seems as though you are expecting everyone to back up and think that since your priest said one thing everybody should think like he does and change their minds accordingly. This is obviously not the case.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

When your mind is already made up, you either cannot or will not see anything else. No Catholic will ever see this.

Ive been trying to understand from my friend I know for 20 years and still no avail. I dont know if its they dont see it or they are expressing it differently. I also notice some Catholics get defensive to where its hard learning from them by challenging their faith.

How can one learn if one doesnt come from their confort zone?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not judging you, that's why I asked the questions instead of accusing you.

So now you know that there are varying answers to the question of who the Church was built on. I would again refer you to the Bible verse that clearly states it.

It just seems as though you are expecting everyone to back up and think that since your priest said one thing everybody should think like he does and change their minds accordingly. This is obviously not the case.

Thats the thing. I spoke with over five priests (not on this topic) in the course of my spiritual journey in the Church. If the Church (people) are in one accord with the sacraments, wouldnt they agree on the basics?

Also, Im not indoctrinated, nor biblical scholar, student, nor priest. The Church says that self-interpretation (sola sriptura) is not a Church teaching. Why would I go off my own views when its more appropriate to ask the Church their faith?

The Church as in all the people who make it up from Saints to you and half the other Catholics on this board.

I tried asking my friend but she closed up thinking Im attacking her faith and I known her for over 20 years and know the Church personally.

Maybe its how I express things?
Maybe people stay in their confort zones?

I never heard one Catholic say, "you know, I havent thought of it from that perspective. That makes sense AND I will not change my views"

Like people think others are trying to change them or some thing. Vulnerability? I never understood that. But thats just my family.

 

[Shiranui117]

@Shiranui117 and @First Baseman

@Serenity Now in his reply #309 explains it better than I did.

Serenity Now:

Carlita,

In a way you are both correct. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ and he built it on the works of Peter and the Apostles (who became the first Bishops of the Church).

The heart and soul of Catholicism is the Mass, which is a Eucharistic celebration. Without the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist there is no Catholic Church. The real presence of Christ is in every single Catholic Church every single day (except today, Good Friday, when the sacrament is removed as a reminder of his death). There is no presence of Peter so Christ is the Church.
​

According to this, I am right and it makes more sense. The ministry (works of Peter) are the Church and her traditions. The cornerstone of the Church is not Peter; it is Christ.

How can any Catholic overlook that?



Also, in the CCC it says:

The whole Church is apostolic...and in that she is "sent out" into the whole world. All the members lf the Church share the same mission. 863​

The Church is based on the "ministry" (mission) of the Apostles. It does not say the cornerstone are the Apostles. Im sure even they know their ministry and vocation are not based on their teachings but that of Christ.

If the Church understands this according to the CCC and Bible, why not some Catholics?

Are you expressing it differently?

Im at a loss.

Carlita,

You can look at the post I made earlier today, which also sort of addresses this, but I will add that everything here is also correct. St. Ignatius of Antioch said, in chapter 8 his epistle to the Smyrnaeans, that "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I am sure a Methodist would say wherever Jesus is, there is the Methodist church. Or a Baptist would say there is the Baptist church or a Pentecostal would say there is the Pentecostal church. This was written by a man expressing his opinion and proves nothing.

 

[Deeje]

If we want to know about this man, (the Apostle Peter,) here is a very good explanation of the person Jesus knew.
Read and look up the scriptures and you will "know" Peter in a way that makes him a very endearing, and at times, impetuous character....one chosen by Jesus for privileges along with the other apostles, James and John. Though all of the apostles are given equal status in the kingdom, some among Jesus chosen ones were obviously of a more dynamic character and Jesus knew the hearts of all of them. He used their personality traits to best advantage in furthering the good news.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003451

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Church is most certainly about Jesus--He is the cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20), and the Church is His body (1 Corinthians 12). Without the cornerstone, the building falls apart.

And the Rock is most definitely either Peter, or his confession of faith in Jesus as being the Christ; before this event, Peter's name was Simon. Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter (the Greek word for "rock" or "little rock/rocky"). And upon this "rock", Jesus would build His Church.

Why do we say that Peter or his confession is the Rock? The entire message of the Church, the thing that guides everything we do, is "Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Peter was the one to own that statement, and to defend it. And it is our job to do the same. Jesus prayed for Peter, that his strength may not fail, and when he had been strengthened, he was to turn and support his brothers. This is the job of the Pope and the bishops, to strengthen those who say that Jesus is the Christ, in order that we keep the faith and hold to what Jesus passed down to us, being continually guided by the Holy Spirit. The Faith is the foundation of the Church.

Peter is like an example of how a Catholic should be part of the Church maybe by vocation or simply keeping the sacraments?

 

[Desert Snake]

The Catholic Church claims its roots in St. Peter and the Apostles. So the Catholic Church considers itself founded by Peter, not 4 centuries later.

you wrote..

Where did you come up with all of that? Jesus built the church on the rock that is Peter. Jesus built it, no one else.

Then you wrote this. Which, seems to be contradicting what you stated earlier.
So, who founded the Catholic church?
Are you saying that the church that Jesus founded, was the Catholic church?
Who is the rock, on which the ''church'' (we don't know what your talking about when you say that at this point), was built?

 

[First Baseman]

you wrote..


Then you wrote this. Which, seems to be contradicting what you stated earlier.
So, who founded the Catholic church?
Are you saying that the church that Jesus founded, was the Catholic church?
Who is the rock, on which the ''church'' (we don't know what your talking about when you say that at this point), was built?

Ask someone else. I tire of repeating myself.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Research Simon the Sorcerer. He tried to buy his way into God's church but of course was refused. So he decided to take over. The church that emerged in the fourth century was more influenced by Simon the Sorcerer than by Simon Peter. God said His church would be small and hard to find, a "little flock". That hardly describes a church with billions of members all over the world.

 

[First Baseman]

Research Simon the Sorcerer. He tried to buy his way into God's church but of course was refused. So he decided to take over. The church that emerged in the fourth century was more influenced by Simon the Sorcerer than by Simon Peter. God said His church would be small and hard to find, a "little flock". That hardly describes a church with billions of members all over the world.

Where does God say that in the Bible?

 

[Desert Snake]

Ask someone else. I tire of repeating myself.

You mean your tired of contradicting yourself? How is someone else going to explain why you are contradicting yourself?
//

 

[First Baseman]

You mean your tired of contradicting yourself? How is someone else going to explain why you are contradicting yourself?
//

Jesus didn't contradict Himself. Who cares what I think?

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus didn't contradict Himself. Who cares what I think?

Who said Jesu contradicted Himself?

Who cares what you think? Your the one writing things in this thread. If you can't explain your contradictions, just say so.

 

[First Baseman]

Who said Jesu contradicted Himself?

Who cares what you think? Your the one writing things in this thread. If you can't explain your contradictions, just say so.

I didn't contradict myself. Just get yourself a crown and put it on your head so you can salt your ego and your pride. All hail the great qkonn!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus built the church. Without Jesus there is no church

@q konn He answered (not to be rude justing stating) Jesus built the Church

But what confuses me First Baseman is

The Catholic Church claims its roots in St. Peter and the Apostles.

1. First you say the Church is built by Jesus
2. Then you say its roots are of Peter and the Apostles.

The roots is Jesus.
The foundation is Jesus.
Jesus built the Church.

How can these two statements 1 and 2 be the same? Either the Church was built on Peter (as Jesus declaired him the rock) or it was built on Christ (because he is the root)

Which is right?

Im asking for clarification not debate.

Where did you come up with all of that? Jesus built the church on the rock that is Peter. Jesus built it, no one else.

If this is true, Christ is not the foundation "anymore" it is Peter.

Which is true? Is Christ "still" the foundation of the Church or "is it now" Peter?

 

[First Baseman]

Jesus built the church and founded it on Peter and the Apostles. Jesus is the chief cornerstone. The verse I quoted several posts back settles the entire issue as far as I'm concerned. Why do you guys insist on beating this to death?

 

[Shiranui117]

@q konn He answered (not to be rude justing stating) Jesus built the Church

But what confuses me First Baseman is



1. First you say the Church is built by Jesus
2. Then you say its roots are of Peter and the Apostles.

The roots is Jesus.
The foundation is Jesus.
Jesus built the Church.

How can these two statements 1 and 2 be the same? Either the Church was built on Peter (as Jesus declaired him the rock) or it was built on Christ (because he is the root)

Which is right?

Im asking for clarification not debate.



If this is true, Christ is not the foundation "anymore" it is Peter.

Which is true? Is Christ "still" the foundation of the Church or "is it now" Peter?

They are both right. The Church is built on St. Peter's confession of faith (or built on St. Peter because of his confession of faith, whichever side you want to take on that, it doesn't matter) by Jesus, and Jesus is the cornerstone, the foundation block without which the entire thing falls apart.

If you say it is EITHER Jesus OR Peter, then you have to deny various verses of Scripture.

EDIT: Jesus is most certainly the heart of the Church, this is absolutely true. Without Jesus, you have no Church. He is the heart and the life of the Church. But if you have no one to confess Him as being the Christ, if you have no one to follow Him, then Jesus is left without a Church, because the Church is the Body of Christ. This is why it is said that Jesus built the Church on Peter, who was the first person to confess faith in Jesus. The Church is built on Peter, because Peter is the first person to confess that foundational faith in Jesus that is the entire lifeblood of the Church.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They are both right. The Church is built on St. Peter's confession of faith (or built on St. Peter because of his confession of faith, whichever side you want to take on that, it doesn't matter) by Jesus, and Jesus is the cornerstone, the foundation block without which the entire thing falls apart.

If you say it is EITHER Jesus OR Peter, then you have to deny various verses of Scripture.

EDIT: Jesus is most certainly the heart of the Church, this is absolutely true. Without Jesus, you have no Church. He is the heart and the life of the Church. But if you have no one to confess Him as being the Christ, if you have no one to follow Him, then Jesus is left without a Church, because the Church is the Body of Christ. This is why it is said that Jesus built the Church on Peter, who was the first person to confess faith in Jesus. The Church is built on Peter, because Peter is the first person to confess that foundational faith in Jesus that is the entire lifeblood of the Church.

Thank you. Very nicely put.

On an objective note, I can see why some christians would differ. Although Peter was the first to profess faith that wouldnt mean the Church is built on him but him, the apostles, and layman alike.

On the other hand, I understand how you explain it.

Thank you.