Ask a Mormon! (Part Two)

[Searching]

This salvation of the dead is interesting doctrine.
Where does it come from? As far as I know, it's not Biblical?
What I'm asking is - was this doctrine part of Smith's teaching or did it come later?

 

[Searching]

Thank you! this answers most of my original questions

Here's a link to the LDS.org page concerning the temples, which gives the current count and various locations.

LDS Temples

This current list will correct or clarify anything I've said previously concerning the number of temples built..

First time I've been to this page myself...

Current list of LDS temples

Looks like the most active year for temples completed was the year 2000...

 

[Searching]

No, rather he was inspired to add and/or correct a few minor things, but nothing really that significant to the average person looking at it who doesn't really care, but to me there are somewhat significant changes here and there which I readily take notice of.

In other words you would have to read it very slowly and carefully to see most of the changes...

Edit: I'd say 99.9% of all LDS members use an LDS edition of the King James, in which the only thing different from a regular King James edition is that occasionally some of the Joseph Smith inspired version corrections to the King James are added as footnotes....Most don't even pay attention to these, although I've noticed many more are including these footnotes in their Sunday School/other auxiliary lassons lately.

So the LDS version of the King James Bible is not so much a translation, but a sort of paraphrase/interpretation?
Is there a list or reference somewhere on the 'net that lists what Smith considered to be "errors" that needed correction?

 

[Comprehend]

This salvation of the dead is interesting doctrine.
Where does it come from? As far as I know, it's not Biblical?
What I'm asking is - was this doctrine part of Smith's teaching or did it come later?

It is in the Bible. Here you go.

1 Corinthians 15: 12-29
12 ¶ Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our preaching vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 ¶ But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

 

[FFH]

So, these new interpretations were translated at the same time he found the plates with the stones?

I would say it was secondary to anything else he did while he was alive, but it was the last thing he was working on until he was killed, so there are rumors he didn't finish his corrections to the King James Bible but I personally think he finished all he needed to and the most important corrections are contained in the Pearl of Great Price as the book of Moses, which is the major missing portions of Genesis restored (from chapter 1-13).

The Pearl of Great Price also includes Joseph Smiths restoration of Matthew chapter 24.

Pearl of Great Price

Joseph Smith's wife Emma held on to this Inspired version of the Bible and did not migrate west with the church so subsequently the LDS church did not have access to all of his work he did on restoring the King James and still don't have the rights to print it for it fell into the hands of the Reorganized LDS church or the Community of Christ church as it is called today ..

 

[Comprehend]

So the LDS version of the King James Bible is not so much a translation, but a sort of paraphrase/interpretation?
Is there a list or reference somewhere on the 'net that lists what Smith considered to be "errors" that needed correction?

no. it is a translation. Not a paraphrase or interpretation.

There was hardly anything changed, and usually the changes don't make much difference anyway so I usually just read the regular KJV without bothering to look up the JST when there is one. Let me put it this way, if there were no JST, I don't think it would make any difference to our doctrine.

Here is a link.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/jst/contents

 

[FFH]

So the LDS version of the King James Bible is not so much a translation, but a sort of paraphrase/interpretation?
Is there a list or reference somewhere on the 'net that lists what Smith considered to be "errors" that needed correction?

This is the best I can do for now.

Joseph Smith Translation

I hate that we call it the Joseph Smith Translation because that's not accurate, because he didn't translate it from anything, but rather recieved inspiration from God concerning the errors and missing portions of the King James, that's why I like to refer to it as the Joseph Smith Inspired version of the King James.

The Pearl of Great Price deals with major missing parts of Genesis, which include most of the missing scriptures from the King James.

Pearl of Great Price


This is a link to the main LDS.org scripture page in which you can see we accept the King James version as long as it is translated correctly

 

[XAAX]

I would say it was secondary to anything else he did while he was alive, but it was the last thing he was working on until he was killed, so there are rumors he didn't finish his corrections to the King James Bible but I personally think he finished all he needed to and the most important corrections are contained in the Pearl of Great Price as the book of Moses, which is the major missing portions of Genesis restored (from chapter 1-13).

The Pearl of Great Price also includes Joseph Smiths restoration of Matthew chapter 24.

Pearl of Great Price

Joseph Smith's wife Emma held on to this Inspired version of the Bible and did not migrate west with the church so subsequently the LDS church did not have access to all of his work he did on restoring the King James and still don't have the rights to print it for it fell into the hands of the Reorganized LDS church or the Community of Christ church as it is called today ..

So did you start out a mormon or where you a christian(non-mormon) before?

 

[FFH]

So did you start out a mormon or where you a christian(non-mormon) before?

I grew up in the church and have never attended any other meetings other than LDS, except one Catholic mass and my wife is a Catholic from Mass. who became LDS 10 years before I met her... She keeps me in line and down to earth....

 

[FFH]

I like to dive into the Joseph Smith Inspired version of the Bible because there are a lot of hidden gems in there which have answered a lot of my questions, which I see come up frequently on the forum and I just want to shout and say hey it's all in here, but am considered too off the wall for most people's tastes.

I am directly related to Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum and subsequently have the Smith family blood in me on my fathers side and am also related to other past presidents of the LDS church on both my mother's and father's side..

I'm a very conservative LDS member if you were to see me at church...I don't bring up any unusual off the wall things in a church setting, but hey this is a forum so we can talk, you know what I mean, and don't have to worry about the strange glares people tend to give you when you ask an off the wall question..

 

[FFH]

There was hardly anything changed, and usually the changes don't make much difference anyway so I usually just read the regular KJV without bothering to look up the JST when there is one. Let me put it this way, if there were no JST, I don't think it would make any difference to our doctrine.

Right, mainly I see some wording in the King James that throws people off or causes them to misunderstand what the Lord had originally intended to say, but the meaning has been lost in the various translations over the years. The Joseph Smith Translation/Inspired version corrects those mistranslations and restore the original meaning which makes certain passages in the King James take on a whole new meaning...

 

[FFH]

This salvation of the dead is interesting doctrine.
Where does it come from? As far as I know, it's not Biblical?
What I'm asking is - was this doctrine part of Smith's teaching or did it come later?

As you can see from this scripture in the King James and also in the Joseph Smith Translation/Inspired version, the teaching is obscure, hence the need for a modern day prophet to clarify this particular teachinf for us and put the practice into action the way the Lord would have it done.

So subsequent revelations have been received and were given to Joseph Smith concerning the manner in which we are to perform baptisms and other necessary saving ordinances for the dead in holy LDS temples...

1 Corinthians 15: 29
King James version

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

1 Corinthians 15: 29
Joseph Smith Inspired version

29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?


As you can see these two versions are identical, thus the need for further revelation concerning this practice, which Joseph Smith subsequently received, and as a result of those revelations we now perform baptisms for the dead and all the other necessary saving ordinances in holy LDS temples around the world, each day, excluding Sunday, at which time the temples are closed, as well as Monday nights, which nights are set aside as "family nights" for LDS members.

 

[FFH]

So did you start out a mormon or where you a christian(non-mormon) before?

I guess I come across as having a non-Mormon background because I like to bridge the gaps between religious denominations, so I've listened to the terminology other religious denominations, especially Charismatic Christians. I try to adopt some of their terminology so as not to come across as exclusionary in any way...

I'm not really into their doctrine, but can gain a better perspective of the overall picture by diving into the Joseph Smith translation, which surprisingly seems to expand upon some Charismatic Christian themes.

 

[jonny]

How many LDS temples are there? I'd guess most are in the US, but are there some in other countries as well?

You can find a list, pictures, and other information about the temples on this page:
http://www.lds.org/temples/geographical/0,11380,1899-1,00.html

I've read that temple ceremonies are restricted, with even some mormons not being allowed in and no non-mormons allowed. Is this true?

The purpose of temple ceremonies is to make covenants with the Lord. The reason why the ceremonies are "restricted" is because the church doesn't want people to make covenants that they are not ready or willing to keep. What it comes down to is that the church wants you to already be doing the things that you will covenant in the temple to do.

 

[jonny]

Who decides if a person's been good enough to worship?
Are there worship alternatives to the temples for those who aren't allowed?

To receive a temple recommend you meet with your bishop and stake president. While they ask you the standard recommend questions, it is really up to the individual to answer them honestly. So, the bishop and stake president sign your recommend, but you really decide if you are "good enough" to attend the temple.

The primary purpose of the temple isn't worship - it's covenant making. Worshipping is done in other ways in the church - primarily in our weekly Sacrament meetings. Those are open to anyone and everyone who would like to attend.

 

[jonny]

Really??

I had no idea one could (or would) baptize a dead person
My understanding of baptism is that it's a conscious, public profession of faith... so how does that work for dead people?

We don't baptise dead people. We perform the ceremony in their behalf and then believe that they have the choice to accept the ceremony or reject the ceremony. If they accept it, it is as if they were baptised in this life. We believe that baptism is an ordinace necessary for salvation, so this is how the Lord has provided that everyone can have the opportunity to be baptised.

If the dead person's been dead and buried awhile, how does the laying on of hands work? They don't actually dig up the dead person, do they?

No. You don't need the dead person's body. You just need their name, gender, and some sort of date.

?? Am I understanding correctly that one must be married in a temple to be saved??

No. LDS doctrine on the afterlife is a little more complicated than saved vs. not saved. Marriage in the temple is required for exaltation, but not salvation.

If so, how does a dead single person who died without being granted temple entrance while alive get married in a temple?

We will all be judged according to our knowledge and opportunities in this life. I don't think it will be held against them and the Lord will work everything out.

 

[Katzpur]

This salvation of the dead is interesting doctrine.
Where does it come from? As far as I know, it's not Biblical?
What I'm asking is - was this doctrine part of Smith's teaching or did it come later?

Hi, Searching. Here is a link to a thread I started several months ago on this topic. You will probably not want to bother reading through the entire thread, but you may wish to at least read my OP. It should answer at least some of your questions -- and possibly raise a few more.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35658

 

[Katzpur]

I am directly related to Joseph Smith's brother Hyrum and subsequently have the Smith family blood in me on my fathers side and am also related to other past presidents of the LDS church on both my mother's and father's side..

You know, FFH, you have stated this on RF about a dozen times now. I'm kind of starting to wonder why. Do you believe that your bloodline gives you some sort of spiritual edge over the rest of us or what? Do you see it as making your opinion more valid than mine, for instance? If the answer to these two questions is "no," could you tell my why it is you mention this so frequently?

I'm a very conservative LDS member if you were to see me at church...I don't bring up any unusual off the wall things in a church setting, but hey this is a forum so we can talk, you know what I mean, and don't have to worry about the strange glares people tend to give you when you ask an off the wall question..

Well, as surprising at it may seem, I guess I'm your soulmate in a round-about sort of way, because I'm a pretty liberal Latter-day Saint. And when I'm at church, I also tend to keep my opinions on things pretty low key, so as not to disturb the conservatives.

 

[XAAX]

You know, FFH, you have stated this on RF about a dozen times now. I'm kind of starting to wonder why. Do you believe that your bloodline gives you some sort of spiritual edge over the rest of us or what?

I don't know, what if someone could prove they were a decendant of Jesus, would that give them an edge in heaven...I would think so, from a christian perspecitve...As far as the question about being raised into LDS, or comming into it latter...What I meant was I was looking for someone who fit the joining it latter in life criteria. I know how religions work as far as being born into them, I just have a question who was something else then became a mormon. Not for marriage, like chose to join for their own reason.

 

[Katzpur]

I don't know, what if someone could prove they were a decendant of Jesus, would that give them an edge in heaven...I would think so, from a christian perspecitve...

Being a descendent of Hyrum Smith is a far cry from being a descendent of Jesus Christ, Preach! Even we nutty Mormons know that!

As far as the question about being raised into LDS, or comming into it latter...What I meant was I was looking for someone who fit the joining it latter in life criteria. I know how religions work as far as being born into them, I just have a question who was something else then became a mormon. Not for marriage, like chose to join for their own reason.

Yeah, if we were born into the faith, we're just sheep, I guess. As far as I know, all of the Latter-day Saints on RF were born and raised in the Church. I could be wrong, though. Sooner or later you'll probably meet a genuine convert to Mormonism. It might actually not be so far in the future. More than two-thirds of our 12 million+ members are first generation converts. Roughly 900 new convert baptisms take place each day.