Ask a Mormon! (Part Two)

[Comprehend]

The LDS church embraces science for the most part. Some of its members don't, but we are allowed to reason and have our own opinions. You might be interested in this paper written by a pretty famous Mormon scholar. I used to be very anti-evolution. Now I'm in the category of "i don't know" and "it really doesn't matter."

Excellent article. I had never read that before.

I liked how he ended it:
"That gap between the record keeper and all the other creatures we know anything about is so unimaginably enormous and yet so neat and abrupt that we can only be dealing with another sort of being, a quantum leap from one world to another. Here is something not derivative from anything that has gone before on the local scene, even though they all share the same atoms."


He said he didn't want to insert his own opinion too much but I think it came through in the end.


I agree with him. I do not think Adam came from a lower ordered species.

Microevolution - obvious
Macroevolution - show me the evidence.

 

[SoyLeche]

Don't you just love Hugh Nibley! By the way, I don't know if you're familiar with "Reflections of a Scientist" by Henry Eyring, but it's an excellent book.

I bought that book and read it my first semester at BYU (when I thought it was likely I would go into one of the sciences). Since I got home from my mission, though, I can't find it anywhere! It is a great book though.

 

[Fluffy]

Just one quick question for comprehend! (I completely understand if you don't wish to answer since this is singling you out on a more generalised thread!)

You list your religion as "the middle road" and previously I have only heard this used in the context of Anglicanism as a description of how Henry Tudor viewed his church as a sort of compromise between Roman Catholicism and radical Protestantism.

Do you express a similar kind of view in your denomination and is this shared by other LDS?

 

[Jane Doe]

Right, then.. here's where I get to jump in.

After wading through 25 pages (that's why it's taking me so long to post, btw - I'm trying to read all of the threads in their entirety), I've seen the exchange regarding the missionaries (and their black suits) but it didn't answer my question. I understand that most religions feel a need to spread the word.. but why do they have to come knocking at my door? And why do they all look like Opie Taylor? Whassup wi' dat? And why are they so hard to get rid of?

Seriously - you need to knock on doors (although I'd much rather you didn't), fine.. but why won't they take no for an answer? Why do I have to come up with different reasons as to why we're not going to continue this conversation? I start off very politely.. and tell them I'm not interested.. and they'll say, "But don't you want to hear..." and I'll have to say.. "Yeah.. still not interested.." and they'll continue with "But we'd really like to tell you..." and that's pretty much all my patience can stand before I have to get rude and threaten to sacrifice them to MY Higher Beings (which I of course, would never really do for all those out there who think I might).

I have answered the door holding a handful of beef liver and said, "Erm.. I'm just in the middle of a ritual right now.. can I get back to you..?" and had them start backing away - but I don't always have liver on hand. Erm.. that could work either way, but no pun intended.

I know this post probably sounds like I'm making fun.. but I'm not trying to. Much. I just can't figure out why the LDS up here feel a need to ram their religion down my throat, and won't stop when I tell them no. They also accost me on buses. I'll be minding my own business, reading a book or something, and two of them will sit down beside me and start talking.

I must really look like I need to be saved.
:devil:

 

[SoyLeche]

Right, then.. here's where I get to jump in.

After wading through 25 pages (that's why it's taking me so long to post, btw - I'm trying to read all of the threads in their entirety), I've seen the exchange regarding the missionaries (and their black suits) but it didn't answer my question. I understand that most religions feel a need to spread the word.. but why do they have to come knocking at my door? And why do they all look like Opie Taylor? Whassup wi' dat? And why are they so hard to get rid of?

Seriously - you need to knock on doors (although I'd much rather you didn't), fine.. but why won't they take no for an answer? Why do I have to come up with different reasons as to why we're not going to continue this conversation? I start off very politely.. and tell them I'm not interested.. and they'll say, "But don't you want to hear..." and I'll have to say.. "Yeah.. still not interested.." and they'll continue with "But we'd really like to tell you..." and that's pretty much all my patience can stand before I have to get rude and threaten to sacrifice them to MY Higher Beings (which I of course, would never really do for all those out there who think I might).

I have answered the door holding a handful of beef liver and said, "Erm.. I'm just in the middle of a ritual right now.. can I get back to you..?" and had them start backing away - but I don't always have liver on hand. Erm.. that could work either way, but no pun intended.

I know this post probably sounds like I'm making fun.. but I'm not trying to. Much. I just can't figure out why the LDS up here feel a need to ram their religion down my throat, and won't stop when I tell them no. They also accost me on buses. I'll be minding my own business, reading a book or something, and two of them will sit down beside me and start talking.

I must really look like I need to be saved.
:devil:

The first thing you need to remember - LDS missionaries are mostly 19 - 21 years old. They are not all that experienced with people, so cut them a little slack

Aside from that, the large majority will take no for an answer without too much trouble. I know that I did while on my mission. I'm guessing you've just lucked onto an unrepresentative sample

 

[Comprehend]

Just one quick question for comprehend! (I completely understand if you don't wish to answer since this is singling you out on a more generalised thread!)

You list your religion as "the middle road" and previously I have only heard this used in the context of Anglicanism as a description of how Henry Tudor viewed his church as a sort of compromise between Roman Catholicism and radical Protestantism.

Do you express a similar kind of view in your denomination and is this shared by other LDS?

Fluffy,

Not at all. The religion I have listed is a joke. I am just a regular LDS. (being funny)

 

[Katzpur]

I know this post probably sounds like I'm making fun.. but I'm not trying to. Much. I just can't figure out why the LDS up here feel a need to ram their religion down my throat, and won't stop when I tell them no.

In all honesty, I'm really pretty surprised that that's been your experience with them. Ramming our religion down other people's throats is not really something we believe in doing.

I must really look like I need to be saved.

I can't help wonder about your use of the word "saved" because I know for a surety that telling people they need to be "saved" and that we have the means to do so is NOT a part of our repertoire. The LDS concept of salvation is almost universalist, so the idea that we would even imply that those not of our faith are "damned" (or anything of the sort) strikes me as very odd.

 

[SoyLeche]

In all honesty, I'm really pretty surprised that that's been your experience with them. Ramming our religion down other people's throats is not really something we believe in doing.

I can't help wonder about your use of the word "saved" because I know for a surety that telling people they need to be "saved" and that we have the means to do so is NOT a part of our repertoire. The LDS concept of salvation is almost universalist, so the idea that we would even imply that those not of our faith are "damned" (or anything of the sort) strikes me as very odd.

I think alot of people confuse our missionaries with those of other denominations. Having said that, though, it is entirely possible that she has only met LDS missionaries that act like this.

 

[Jane Doe]

The first thing you need to remember - LDS missionaries are mostly 19 - 21 years old. They are not all that experienced with people, so cut them a little slack

I do! I've never hit one of them with a broom when shooing them off my doorstep.

Aside from that, the large majority will take no for an answer without too much trouble. I know that I did while on my mission. I'm guessing you've just lucked onto an unrepresentative sample

Lovely. Lucky me. But I don't get the same ones all the time. Maybe they teach them to be more assertive up here?

 

[Jane Doe]

In all honesty, I'm really pretty surprised that that's been your experience with them. Ramming our religion down other people's throats is not really something we believe in doing.

I can't help wonder about your use of the word "saved" because I know for a surety that telling people they need to be "saved" and that we have the means to do so is NOT a part of our repertoire. The LDS concept of salvation is almost universalist, so the idea that we would even imply that those not of our faith are "damned" (or anything of the sort) strikes me as very odd.

"Saved" was my word, not that of the Mormons I've been.. accosted by. They'd just like to enlighten me as to how one day, the lions will lie down with the lambs.
~shrug~
I'll bring the BBQ sauce when it happens.

I just meant that they must think I really need to find religion .. THEIR religion... or something. I swear, I don't look like an axe murderer or anything. :areyoucra

 

[Jane Doe]

I think alot of people confuse our missionaries with those of other denominations. Having said that, though, it is entirely possible that she has only met LDS missionaries that act like this.

No confusion. They wear little gold pins with "Latter Day Saints" or "Elder" or something to that effect. And they tell me who they are and what they're doing.

 

[SoyLeche]

Lovely. Lucky me. But I don't get the same ones all the time. Maybe they teach them to be more assertive up here?

At any given time there are approx. 60,000 LDS missionaries in the world. You will see 2 of them.

I see a couple of options:

a) You really have just happened to get abnormally pushy missionaries each time they've visited.

b) You have had a couple of pushy missionaries, and quite a few non-pushy missionaries, but, as we tend to remember the pushy and forget the non-pushy, it seems to you looking back that they have all been pushy.

c) You weren't actually talking to LDS missionaries, although I would guess that a and b apply in this case too.

 

[SoyLeche]

No confusion. They wear little gold pins with "Latter Day Saints" or "Elder" or something to that effect. And they tell me who they are and what they're doing.

Black name tags - not gold pins.

 

[SoyLeche]

I just meant that they must think I really need to find religion .. THEIR religion... or something. I swear, I don't look like an axe murderer or anything. :areyoucra

Actually, it is much more enjoyable talking to someone who doesn't look like an axe murderer. If you did look like an axe murderer they probably wouldn't stick around

 

[FFH]

Jane Doe, I think the missionaries now days are told to be a bit more assertive than they were told to be in the past.

I live just outside of Salt Lake and the missionaries have approached me in the parking lot at Walmart and other businesses, they have also knocked on our door at times. They really get around so it doesn't surprise me you have had so many encounters with them.

I believe our time is short on this earth and so do they, that's why they are being a little bit more pushy these days.

A guy I work with who is LDS but not active said the missionaries have approached him just outside of where we work and have been very pushy to the point of being annoying, but I think it leaves a lasting impression of the ergency of their message, which is extremely important and must not be ignored.....

Others I have talked to at work have also messed around with the missionaries when they approach them, by responding to them in strange ways, just outside where I work, on the sidewalk. They come by about twice a month. It doesn't seem to discourage them and I think they get a laugh out of it too.... Don't be too serious with them but just joke with them and you will see they are just as human as the rest of us. But really if you are interested in the Mormon church they would assign "sister" missionaries to you, for they are not allowed to teach single women in their homes, unless there is an accompanying female member from the church with them and even then they must meet at a local church, if I remember the rules correctly, at least that's what we had to do.

As a missionary in Japan, we walked up and down the sidewalks of local small businesses and approached people. We had good success with that.

Most of the people who were baptised actually approached us and asked us to talk with them, not the other way around. We were just there to assist them with their verious questions...

They approached us as while we walked down the sidewalk. One even said he had a dream the night before, that he would meet us on the street. Another house we knocked on a young man answered and said I knew you were coming.

The point being, those who are interested, and ready to hear the fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, do so readily and willingly without any coaxing or "pushing".

Jesus said "My sheep here my voice and follow me"

 

[Fluffy]

Lol! Okay thanks comprehend. Just shows I think about these things way too much .

 

[Jane Doe]

At any given time there are approx. 60,000 LDS missionaries in the world. You will see 2 of them.

I see a couple of options:

a) You really have just happened to get abnormally pushy missionaries each time they've visited.

b) You have had a couple of pushy missionaries, and quite a few non-pushy missionaries, but, as we tend to remember the pushy and forget the non-pushy, it seems to you looking back that they have all been pushy.

c) You weren't actually talking to LDS missionaries, although I would guess that a and b apply in this case too.

Only I get two types of missionaries bangin' on my door. LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses. The JW usually pick older people - and usually it's a man and a woman. (which also ticks me off 'cause I was taught to be polite to my elders. #!$#@) The LDS are ALWAYS wearing suits, always look like Opie Taylor, are always polite (sickeningly so sometimes ), and always have the nametags.

The only way they WEREN'T LDS missionaries is if they're people who were impersonating LDS missionaries, and the only reason they'd be knockin' on my door is 'cause they're casing the joint for their next caper (you've gotta read that last line with one of those 1930's ganster films kinda voices - and possibly add a "see..." to the end of it) and with my Boxer watchdog (LOL) and the big CHUBB security stickers, I don't think that's it.

 

[Jane Doe]

Black name tags - not gold pins.

Sorry - I was wearing sunglasses and the tags were shiney... and I tried not to spend too much time lookin' 'cause that's an INSTANT invitation to start talking to me, apparently. Still wearin' nametags.

 

[Jane Doe]

Actually, it is much more enjoyable talking to someone who doesn't look like an axe murderer. If you did look like an axe murderer they probably wouldn't stick around

Then.. I'm so adorably cute that they feel compelled to tell me about lions and lambs. Either way, I'd rather read my book. Hrm.. maybe it's my usual reading choices that makes them gravitate towards me... Horror, Crime, True Story Serial Killers.. you know.. the usual cute n' fluffy stuff.

 

[SoyLeche]

Only I get two types of missionaries bangin' on my door. LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses. The JW usually pick older people - and usually it's a man and a woman. (which also ticks me off 'cause I was taught to be polite to my elders. #!$#@) The LDS are ALWAYS wearing suits, always look like Opie Taylor, are always polite (sickeningly so sometimes ), and always have the nametags.

The only way they WEREN'T LDS missionaries is if they're people who were impersonating LDS missionaries, and the only reason they'd be knockin' on my door is 'cause they're casing the joint for their next caper (you've gotta read that last line with one of those 1930's ganster films kinda voices - and possibly add a "see..." to the end of it) and with my Boxer watchdog (LOL) and the big CHUBB security stickers, I don't think that's it.

Well, then, it's either option 1 or 2