Ask About Islam

[KWED]

The notion of "consensual sex" is immoral

Worth repeating, just in case anyone missed it.

 

[KWED]

I think you're erring, with many others, in definitions. If a woman agrees to have intercourse with a man, then it is consensual, i.e. she gave her consent. I see you arguing over nothing.

I agree that if a woman gives free, informed consent to sex then it is fine. If sex is performed without consent, then it is rape.

However, an important issue is that not all "consent" is "free and informed". Do you think the "consent" of a 10 year old girl to a much older man, who she looks up to and trusts (like a teacher) is valid? Would that sex acceptable, or would you consider it "rape"?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..if two adults decide to have a consensual one-night stand (using contraception), what "responsibilities" are there?

I would expect you to say something like that.
I feel sorry for the police, who have to deal with ignorance on a large scale on saturday nights in the UK.

 

[KWED]

I would expect you to say something like that.

What, you mean asking you to justify your strange claims? Yeah, kinda expected.

I feel sorry for the police, who have to deal with ignorance on a large scale on saturday nights in the UK.

What has this got to do with anything?
And I notice that you keep avoiding my points and questions. I asked...
"if two adults decide to have a consensual one-night stand (using contraception), what "responsibilities" are there?

 

[KWED]

I feel sorry for the police, who have to deal with ignorance on a large scale on saturday nights in the UK.

Do you think the police should deal with men think they don't need to get consent from a woman before having sex with them?

 

[Sheldon]

The notion of "consensual sex" is immoral,

Words fail me...

 

[Sheldon]

I think you're erring, with many others, in definitions. If a woman agrees to have intercourse with a man, then it is consensual, i.e. she gave her consent. I see you arguing over nothing.

Coercion need not be explicit or overt. It's not nothing as the result can be lifetime of trauma for the victim. many rape victims have explained they also felt nonsensical guilt, because they were too afraid to fight back or even say no, and just froze and let it happen.

Some of the views being expressed here are deeply worrying, I must say.

 

[Sheldon]

KWED said: ↑
..if two adults decide to have a consensual one-night stand (using contraception), what "responsibilities" are there?

I would expect you to say something like that.
I feel sorry for the police, who have to deal with ignorance on a large scale on saturday nights in the UK.

What on earth has that to do with KWED's post? You also ignored his question, though I shan't even feign surprise at that. I feel sorry for any wife whose husband thinks their marriage contract entitle s him to sex, whether she consents or not.

 

[muhammad_isa]

"if two adults decide to have a consensual one-night stand (using contraception), what "responsibilities" are there?

I consider that an ignorant question.
If you don't know, then it is quite sad.

What do you think most of the saturday night violence is about?
Women and sex .. no?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

People generalize when they "think" they know more about my religion than I do and they aren't even Muslim.

I’d put more stock in this if you didn’t concede ignorance of a great many things. How can a religious newbie be an expert?

 

[KWED]

Words fail me...

ikr.
It's like someone doing an exaggerated parody an Islamist extremist.

 

[KWED]

I consider that an ignorant question.
If you don't know, then it is quite sad.

OK. So basically you are saying that you don't have a response.
Fair enough.

What do you think most of the saturday night violence is about?
Women and sex .. no?

1. No. It's mostly about misplaced notions of pride, honour, respect, duty, face-saving, territory, social positioning, inadequacy, fear, etc.
2. What does 2 blokes having a fight over a woman (if it does happen) have to do with the "responsibilities" of two business people away on a conference having informed, consensual sex and then going their separate ways?

Again, I don't expect you will be able to provide a cogent response.

 

[MyM]

I’d put more stock in this if you didn’t concede ignorance of a great many things. How can a religious newbie be an expert?

Who said I was a newbie? Don't presume you know me please. Do you know how old I am and when I accepted Islam?

 

[Sheldon]

I consider that an ignorant question.

What do you think most of the saturday night violence is about?
Women and sex .. no?

So that's 2 replies, and 0 answers to the question, quelle surprise.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't expect you will be able to provide a cogent response.

Your agenda is one of demeaning the importance of marriage.
Mine is one of the opposite. I consider sex before marriage to be immoral.
I don't expect you to understand .. or perhaps want to understand.
You can continue to deride and mock.

G-d has enjoined marriage upon mankind.
Billions of Christians and Muslims understand .. but you can't.

I could continue to elaborate, but it is futile. You wish to continue with your stance that consent is the answer to all the ills from sexual deviance in society.
It's not my duty to argue with ignorant people.

 

[Sheldon]

I consider marriage to be a perfectly legitimate way of confirming a relationship,

Your agedna is one of demeaning the importance of marriage.

 

[Birdnest]

However, an important issue is that not all "consent" is "free and informed". Do you think the "consent" of a 10 year old girl to a much older man, who she looks up to and trusts (like a teacher) is valid? Would that sex acceptable, or would you consider it "rape"?

It all depends on her maturity.

 

[Sheldon]

I consider sex before marriage to be immoral.

Yet can't offer a cogent reason why, who does it harm?

G-d has enjoined marriage upon mankind.

That's a rather pointless assertion to direct an atheist, wouldn't you say?

Billions of Christians and Muslims understand .. but you can't.

Almost as if he doesn't share their belief in a deity.

your stance that consent is the answer to all the ills from sexual deviance in society.

He did not remotely claim that, you have used yet another straw man fallacy.

It's not my duty to argue with ignorant people.

That one is an ad hominem fallacy, ironically.

 

[Sheldon]

KWED said: ↑
However, an important issue is that not all "consent" is "free and informed". Do you think the "consent" of a 10 year old girl to a much older man, who she looks up to and trusts (like a teacher) is valid? Would that sex acceptable, or would you consider it "rape"?

It all depends on her maturity.

Of a ten year old child? Oh dear god, this has gone from creepy innuendo to vile paedophillia.

 

[RAYYAN]

that is an argument from incredulity fallacy, it is a known common logical fallacy, and thus the assertion is irrational by definition.

Well, NO
You are aware that I am not using that as evidence right!
It is simply something I believe and I can't unbelieve something I believe already
You can call it whatever you want, but, It is something I believe.

No it isn't.

Yes, it is

Another argument from incredulity fallacy.

You can't tell people what they believe as long as they don't force their belief on others

I never claimed to know how life started, not knowing how why or if something was caused, doesn't mean we can accept bare unevidenced claims, based on superstition.

Oh! you don't know!
Correct me if I am wrong here
after the big bang, a single-celled life started by accident, then multiplied, multiplied, then there was evolution and a man. Isn't that the theory!
Oh, I forgot. You don't know

The big bang is supported by scientific evidence, your bare assertion for an unevidenced deity, using inexplicable magic is not. Why do theists think repetition of a bare claim is valid argument?

Again,
You can't judge anyone of their personal belief as long as they don't enforce it on you
Are you asking me not to post about how I feel!

Which was and still is, a known common logical fallacy, called an argument from incredulity fallacy. Here is a <LINK> to an explanation of that fallacy. Any assertion based on or using a known fallacy in informal logic, is by definition irrational.

Still. I can talk about my belief as much as I want without considering your feelings