Tomorrows_Child
Active Member
What is your personal stance on Hitler's extermination of not only Jews but political opponents, members of Communist parties and so on?
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Ask me about the Third Reich, National Socialism, Hitler & the Holocaust
- Thread starter Nietzsche
- Start date
...it was effectively a rape of 2+ thousand years of German culture and history and one of the most disgusting crimes against humanity ever committed, driven by an almost tangible hate against anyone who didn't fit the Nazi idea of "German"?
How was the Catholic church involved with the Third Reich, and did it encourage WWII to start. There are numerous books that claim that helped instigate the second world war in order to obtain the Vatican state. One such book is titled Pope Pious XII and the Third Reich. (I no longer own this book nor have a copy.) There are also books predating the war that talk about a deal made with Mussolini, and there are reproductions I have seen of war posters that seem to show the pope encouraging enlistment in the military. I realize its not specifically related to your topic, but I wonder if you have read about it and have an opinion. Is it all just fabulous or factual in your opinion?
It's a load of absolute bull****. The Vatican has blood on its hands without doubt, but they did nothing to start the war or encourage it. Italy used the Pope in propaganda, and the Pope never came out directly against the Axis(well not so long as Italy was fighting for them).
Such a boring answer. Sometimes truth isn't stranger than fiction.
Sad but true, indeed.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In recent centuries especially, Popes are almost always against any war, and when war breaks out they tend not to take sides-- at least officially. However, they often have spoken out against atrocities committed during war, and yet little of that was enunciated by the Vatican during WWII. An excuse given is that the church was worried about its own survival, yet it seems to me that the main role of the church should be to teach morality versus just trying to protect their own institution.
BTW, they weren't the only ones to do this.
BTW, they weren't the only ones to do this.
The sort of atrocities going on during WW2 are things that had never really been done before. They were killing millions of people. At the time, what good would it have done to widen the potential victims list?
The "alliance" with Stalin, wasn't. It was a non-aggression pact.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And I'm sure this is why they did what they did, so I cannot pile hot coals on their head. OTOH, I think we do need to stand for something even if we end up suffering for it. But I agree with you-- it's a tough call, and it's easy to be "hero" when we're not and our families are not at risk.
Yeah. In defense of the Vatican(the Vatican itself, not merely the Catholic Church as a whole) put their necks on the line to save people when they could.
Spiderman
Veteran Member
THey agreed to split Poland.
Anyhow, if Hitler had not invaded Russia and just held on to France and the rest of the land He occupied, do you think He still would have lost the war?
And the Taliban & the US agreed to fight the Soviets. Doesn't make it an alliance, just a convenient set of circumstances.
sigh.
No. The economy of the Third Reich required further exploitation. Austria, Bohemia, Poland, the Lowlands, France, Denmark, Norway and the Balkans were just stop-gap measures until Lebensraum could be obtained in the east. Otherwise it was going to crash, and catastrophically so. There is no scenario without changes before 1936 where Germany could afford not to invade the Soviet Union, and it cannot be put off for very long because every extra month it's pushed forward, the stronger the SU gets relative to Germany.
Well, how much time do you have?
Several. One, there would have been a prolonged power struggle between him, Goering, Himmler and Heydrich, for one.
rocala
Well-Known Member
Enough - nothing that I have read so far makes me feel that Rohm felt the need to fear Hitler.
May I ask what your view of the Rohm/Hitler relationship was? This will tell me what I need to focus on, because there are a lot of myths surrounding it.
Once you reach the actual time of the Third Reich the only people into occultism or astrology were Himmler(and some of his more loony subordinates, of which Reinhard Heydrich was NOT one) and then another brand of crazy, Rudolf Hess.