Ask me about the Third Reich, National Socialism, Hitler & the Holocaust

[Flankerl]

Ooh.....I know! If the NAZI had won, Europe would have been united into a single state

Nope it wouldn't have.

The muslim world would probably be largely left alone.

Haha so cute.

 

[Bunyip]

Nope it wouldn't have.

The pointwas that Hitler's goal came true, Europe is one.



Haha so cute.

 

[Flankerl]

The pointwas that Hitler's goal came true, Europe is one.

Except that wasn't his goal.

Also Europe today isn't one. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, Vatican state, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Moldavia, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia beg to differ.

 

[Bunyip]

Except that wasn't his goal.

Also Europe today isn't one. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Andorra, San Marino, Monaco, Vatican state, Serbia, Bosnia Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Moldavia, Belarus, Ukraine and Russia beg to differ.

They beg to get into the Eurovision song contest also.

 

[Flankerl]

The ESC? lol

Yes that's on the same page as a unified Europe. How couldn't I see that?

 

[Bunyip]

Flanker

Europe has united into a larger economic and political entity, and this will be parallelled in South East Asia, Australasia and so on in time. I think that the role of the traditional geopolitical boundaries is eroding. Which is not to defend Adolf in any way, be was a total nutjob.

 

[Bunyip]

The ESC? lol

Yes that's on the same page as a unified Europe. How couldn't I see that?

I know mate. I couldn't believe you missed the elephant in the room. It is a cult thing in Australia.

 

[Flankerl]

But then again Europe has not united.

Some European Countries have taken steps for further integration. But that's about it.

 

[metis]

Do you think if the Fuhrer succeeded and became victorious there would be israel today?
Also how would the world look like?

Also how would the relationship between Muslim World and Third Reich look like?

As far as the first question is concerned, I think I can safely say there would be no Israel. The Germans courted the Muslim states, and at least some of the Islamic leaders welcomed this, including the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. And the Germans needed oil-- badly.

Even though they courted the Muslim world, the reality is that this was undoubtedly a matter of convenience and also "if your enemy is my enemy, I guess that makes us friends". If the Germans had won the war, I doubt they would have invaded the Middle East, instead working out a symbiotic relationship so they would have access to the oil.

 

[Lyndon]

The Germans were already invading the Muslim world in North Africa, that would have been just the beginning.

 

[Nietzsche]

I already said what year it was and gave the castle a purpose, and I already constricted it to ss officers. And if you refuse to provide an answer, then in the thought experiment ofcourse you get shot for treason.

SS Officers of what branch? If it's the Administrative SS, then they're likely being watched directly by Himmler, in which case it'll be astounding they got that far because you need, if memory serves, to prove your Germanic lineage back eight or more generations just to be eligible. If it's the Waffen SS, the same restrictions apply though because of Himmler's utter incompetence in military affairs I wonder what use it would be.

The SS honestly held nothing terribly important.

Do you think if the Fuhrer succeeded and became victorious there would be israel today?

Depends on when he won. A Jewish State, or rather a Jewish Dumping Ground might well exist if he wins sometime between 1939 and 1941. Any time after that, though, and the extermination process has already been put in motion.

Any state the Jews would get however would likely be a death sentence anyway. The places put forward were Madagascar, Siberia and such.

Also how would the world look like?

Depends on the degree of victory. But this is what their absolute maximum(and honestly utterly unobtainable) claims looked like;

Here.

Also how would the relationship between Muslim World and Third Reich look like?

If Italy stays in the fight and also wins, you're going to be under Mussolini's boot-heel. If Italy is knocked out but Germany later wins(this it's post 42') Muslims, like Judaism, will be something you only find in history books.

There were brigades of Moslem soldiers in the Waffen SS, such as the Handschar. Hitler had close relationships with a number of Arab groups, parricularly the Free Arab movement. They were natural allies in the assault upon Judaism.

I would think that there would be no Israel had the NAZI won.

Allies of convenience, nothing more. To be sent eventually to the camps none the less, just like the Ukrainian and Russian collaborators.

I heared somewhere the nazi scientists were misled by other scientists providing false data of radioactive measurements, which lead the nazi's to give up on developing the atomic bomb. Could have been the difference between victory and defeat.

You'd have to rework everything about National Socialism so they could accept "Jewish Physics" to allow them to build a bomb, and then you'd also have to find a way to fund that program without cutting out something from the conventional front.

Otherwise, the USA and Brittain bombed to hell. Eastern Europe depopulated. High ranking nazi's living like kings on enormous ranches in the East. Ofcourse Israel would not come to exist. The muslim world would probably be largely left alone.

More or less, though Arabia & Anatolia was slated for Germandom eventually. The 'Lebensraum' concept had no set end. It was always to be pushed further and further east as the time dictated.

Flanker

Europe has united into a larger economic and political entity, and this will be parallelled in South East Asia, Australasia and so on in time. I think that the role of the traditional geopolitical boundaries is eroding. Which is not to defend Adolf in any way, be was a total nutjob.

Europe only existed to serve German purposes. If you weren't Germanic, and thus not incorporated into the Reich, you could very well be slated for extermination eventually. If you want to imagine the future of Europe in a Nazi victory scenario, all you have to do is imagine a mass grave or crematorium.

 

[Nietzsche]

As far as the first question is concerned, I think I can safely say there would be no Israel. The Germans courted the Muslim states, and at least some of the Islamic leaders welcomed this, including the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. And the Germans needed oil-- badly.

Even though they courted the Muslim world, the reality is that this was undoubtedly a matter of convenience and also "if your enemy is my enemy, I guess that makes us friends". If the Germans had won the war, I doubt they would have invaded the Middle East, instead working out a symbiotic relationship so they would have access to the oil.

Lebensraum has no set end. It's all about pushing the border further and further. Arabia would come up eventually.

 

[metis]

Lebensraum has no set end. It's all about pushing the border further and further. Arabia would come up eventually.

I have doubts about that in terms of actually trying to occupy any of the Middle East simply because it would have overextended themselves and open up that many more fronts they would have to then try and defend. The Arabs simply would not have tolerated another European power grabbing their land, so they would have fought like hell.

The Germans had allies there so there would be no need to invade. However, if there was hesitation by the Arab countries to sell Germany the oil, then I can agree with you.

 

[Nietzsche]

I have doubts about that in terms of actually trying to occupy any of the Middle East simply because it would have overextended themselves and open up that many more fronts they would have to then try and defend. The Arabs simply would not have tolerated another European power grabbing their land, so they would have fought like hell.

And the Russians wouldn't? Germany having bested Russia would be almost unstoppable. The Middle East would be gobbled up in time, just as Italy was slated to be picked apart. Lombardy, Istria, so on and so forth.

The Germans had allies there so there would be no need to invade. However, if there was hesitation by the Arab countries to sell Germany the oil, then I can agree with you.

German allies were a means to an end, nothing more. The moment it became possible, they're going to take them apart.

 

[metis]

And the Russians wouldn't? Germany having bested Russia would be almost unstoppable. The Middle East would be gobbled up in time, just as Italy was slated to be picked apart. Lombardy, Istria, so on and so forth.

German allies were a means to an end, nothing more. The moment it became possible, they're going to take them apart.

The NAZI's appear to really only have aspirations for Europe, although no doubt their appetite could increase with success. But again, why open another front? Makes no sense as long as they can get the oil. They had no love of any Semitics, so why bother with them? And WWI showed that the Arabs could be very tenacious.

Nope, no can buy.

 

[Nietzsche]

The NAZI's appear to really only have aspirations for Europe, although no doubt their appetite could increase with success. But again, why open another front? Makes no sense as long as they can get the oil. They had no love of any Semitics, so why bother with them? And WWI showed that the Arabs could be very tenacious.

Nope, no can buy.

I never said it made sense. The core of Nazi ideology was Kampf, or Struggle. "If I could wish anything on the German people, it would be a war every ten or twelve years" - Hitler, 1941 speaking at the Wolf's Lair in Ostpreussen.

Orwell's "Forever War" concept is based entirely on Hitler's, and the Nazi's, obsession with conflict. War was an end, not just a means. They would never, for instance, have concluded peace with the Soviet Union. The Urals were only the first objective. "Europe ends where Germanic-types do, and where pure Slavdom begins".

 

[metis]

I never said it made sense. The core of Nazi ideology was Kampf, or Struggle. "If I could wish anything on the German people, it would be a war every ten or twelve years" - Hitler, 1941 speaking at the Wolf's Lair in Ostpreussen.

Orwell's "Forever War" concept is based entirely on Hitler's, and the Nazi's, obsession with conflict. War was an end, not just a means. They would never, for instance, have concluded peace with the Soviet Union. The Urals were only the first objective. "Europe ends where Germanic-types do, and where pure Slavdom begins".

The NAZI propaganda machine did not state they were bent on world domination, and they were not that stupid to believe they could do it anyhow. Yes, the Soviets had to go, but I doubt very much that the Germans would have tried to go beyond the Urals. Why would they? What's there for them? The Urals would have served as at least a partial natural barrier, so why lose that advantage?

Obviously, the NAZI's had no love for the Slavs either, so given the opportunity I would tend to think that genocide of them would be a possible plan down the road. However, I don't know of any reports of a plan to do as such.

BTW, many do not realize that one plan that was in the hands of Himmler was a strategy to eliminate the Catholic Church in Europe, and this may have at least partially stemmed from the fact that Bavarians tended to become increasingly more uneasy about Hitler and the NAZI's to the point whereas Hitler began to avoid that region. The NAZI's demanded the full obedience to the "Fuhrer", but there's just a bit of problem with Catholics doing that-- think "Pope".

 

[Nietzsche]

The NAZI propaganda machine did not state they were bent on world domination, and they were not that stupid to believe they could do it anyhow. Yes, the Soviets had to go, but I doubt very much that the Germans would have tried to go beyond the Urals. Why would they? What's there for them? The Urals would have served as at least a partial natural barrier, so why lose that advantage?

I'm not talking about world domination in Hitler's lifetime. Or in six lifetimes. There was a reason they called it the "Thousand Year Reich". Hitler's plan wasn't just for the immediate. This would be something that he intended to be worked on for centuries. That was the purpose of the Hitler Youth & the SS Officer Corps. Indoctrinate the upcoming generations, give rewards to the ones who most fervently believe in the Fuehrer Ideal.

Obviously, the NAZI's had no love for the Slavs either, so given the opportunity I would tend to think that genocide of them would be a possible plan down the road. However, I don't know of any reports of a plan to do as such.

How do you think they were going to make room for German settlers? The Poles would be the first to go, then Ukrainians(specifically in the Crimea/Gotenland area). The Baltic peoples were also to be removed and replaced with Germanic settlers. Latvians & Estonians first, Lithuanians after Poland is subjugated.

Hungarians were on the list too(obviously not Slavs, but still on The List). Romania. Honestly, the only places the Nazis never seemed interested in were Western Europe past the Somme River.

BTW, many do not realize that one plan that was in the hands of Himmler was a strategy to eliminate the Catholic Church in Europe, and this may have at least partially stemmed from the fact that Bavarians tended to become increasingly more uneasy about Hitler and the NAZI's to the point whereas Hitler began to avoid that region. The NAZI's demanded the full obedience to the "Fuhrer", but there's just a bit of problem with Catholics doing that-- think "Pope".

It was to be eventually supplanted, yes. But that was very much a post-war design.

 

[metis]

I'm not talking about world domination in Hitler's lifetime. Or in six lifetimes. There was a reason they called it the "Thousand Year Reich". Hitler's plan wasn't just for the immediate. This would be something that he intended to be worked on for centuries. That was the purpose of the Hitler Youth & the SS Officer Corps. Indoctrinate the upcoming generations, give rewards to the ones who most fervently believe in the Fuehrer Ideal.


How do you think they were going to make room for German settlers? The Poles would be the first to go, then Ukrainians(specifically in the Crimea/Gotenland area). The Baltic peoples were also to be removed and replaced with Germanic settlers. Latvians & Estonians first, Lithuanians after Poland is subjugated.

Hungarians were on the list too(obviously not Slavs, but still on The List). Romania. Honestly, the only places the Nazis never seemed interested in were Western Europe past the Somme River.


It was to be eventually supplanted, yes. But that was very much a post-war design.

OK, I think we're pretty much on the same page with the above as obviously you were looking at a much longer time-line than I was. I think you'll agree with me on this, namely that in most of the countries you list above, there were sizable numbers of Germanic peoples. For example, a good friend of mine comes from an area that today is in Poland but was previously part of Germany. Because of this, he can speak both Polish and German quite fluently.

 

[Nietzsche]

OK, I think we're pretty much on the same page with the above as obviously you were looking at a much longer time-line than I was. I think you'll agree with me on this, namely that in most of the countries you list above, there were sizable numbers of Germanic peoples. For example, a good friend of mine comes from an area that today is in Poland but was previously part of Germany. Because of this, he can speak both Polish and German quite fluently.

There were German minorities from Spain to Russia, and from the arctic circle to North Africa, yes. And I have a certain fondness for the Lost Territories. Ost & Westpreussen, Schlesien, Pomerania, that bit of Brandenburg..

sigh. I miss Prussia. And the Hohenzollerns.