Assume you are the " creator "

[Piculet]

That question is blasphemous and also useless.

 

[Onoma]

I would want "life" to go on about its business with as little influence from myself as possible. I'd want to see what happened without me mucking about the place. I'd occasionally observe to see how life was faring. Either they'd figure out how to survive or they wouldn't.

Nothing really benevolent about it. More to see if life could come up with something better than I had in mind.

Interesting answer

Reminds me of how biologists working in the field will try to stay hidden from the very things they are observing in the attempt to not disturb the system they are observing

I would do something just like that if I were an alien exobiologist studying humans on earth

" If life could come up with something better " is also a very interesting answer

What if " God " showed up and said " OK, smartypants, YOU design a better reality "

I'd generally get hung up on the part where pions borrow energy from the future and just shrug my shoulders

 

[Fool]

Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. O ouroboros; ahmi yat ahmi or nuk pu nuk or pantheistic

 

[Nakosis]

Interesting answer

Reminds me of how biologists working in the field will try to stay hidden from the very things they are observing in the attempt to not disturb the system they are observing

I would do something just like that if I were an alien exobiologist studying humans on earth

" If life could come up with something better " is also a very interesting answer

What if " God " showed up and said " OK, smartypants, YOU design a better reality "

I'd generally get hung up on the part where pions borrow energy from the future and just shrug my shoulders

I wonder if it is that mysterious. Maybe I'm wrong and some smart person can correct me but, State governments, US Congress borrow from our future all of the time. No time travel required. Borrow now payback at a later date.

The way you get something from nothing you borrow from the future meaning as long as it gets paid back before any laws are violated, it's all good.

So a particle gets temporarily created now, so it exists now for us to interact with, then is gone, disperses its energy at some future point so the equation balances out.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If I'm understanding the question correctly ( Is there something outside the Bible that is a precedent for the Abrahamic God ? ) - I would probably say that the Sumerian " Mes ", ( Themselves written to be associated with the 2 " Mes trees " in the garden of the gods ) which are essentially sacerdotal duties ( roles that are fulfilled by a deified priest ) are themselves the basis for the roles associated with the Abrahamic God and priest/s that serve under it

1. ENship ( En means " lord / priest " )
2. Godship
3. The exalted and enduring crown
4. The throne of kingship
5. The exalted sceptre
6. The royal insignia
7. The exalted shrine
8. Shepherdship
9. Kingship

The rest here - Me (mythology) - Wikipedia


Is that what you were asking about ?

Though I'm hoping @Brian2 can answer my quote, I was wondering how does creation, say looking at the sunset, show characteristics of an abrahamic god without referring to scripture or any written and oral reference related to christianity (and any other creator/creation religions).

If creation shows obvious signs of a creator, then by our interaction with creation we should be drawn to the christian god. If I'm lost on a trail in the woods without signal markers, I couldn't find my way. If someone told me just follow the trail, that could lead anywhere. If someone doesn't have a map (or GPS) how on earth can they find their way out if to them it's not "obvious"?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?

That's up to the creator, and I haven't decided yet if I were Him.

 

[Stevicus]

Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?

I guess it would depend on what reason I might have for wanting to create an entire universe from scratch.

If it was some kind of experiment, then the results could be flawed if the subjects of the experiment were told that they were created by some outside being. If it's a test of each individual's morals and the general quality of their being, then it might be best to just not even tell anyone - no messengers, no tablets with commandments on them, no "breadcrumbs" at all. The results would be more valuable if one gets to see how people would act without any knowledge or belief in any "creator." If people are just behaving themselves only because they're afraid of going to Hell, then it wouldn't be a very productive or useful exercise in determining who is truly moral and who isn't.

 

[Brian2]

If one has (EDIT) not, heard of what he abrahamic god, what characteristics in creation that would lead to that god?

Anything specific without point of reference?

Creation can lead to a belief in a God and aspects of creation can tell us some things about that God, but nobody can believe in the Abrahamic God specifically without knowledge of that God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Creation can lead to a belief in a God and aspects of creation can tell us some things about that God, but nobody can believe in the Abrahamic God specifically without knowledge of that God.

Can you give an example of how creation itself lead to a believe in god and tell one about god?

For example, a sunset? A baby in the womb? or so have you...

Is there something specific that connects the two? A hunch?

 

[Koldo]

Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?

I would probably be too busy figuring out how to create a peaceful environment to even think about that. You know, like preventing carnivores from ever coming into existence and not allowing any form of disease to exist.

 

[Onoma]

Though I'm hoping @Brian2 can answer my quote, I was wondering how does creation, say looking at the sunset, show characteristics of an abrahamic god without referring to scripture or any written and oral reference related to christianity (and any other creator/creation religions).

If creation shows obvious signs of a creator, then by our interaction with creation we should be drawn to the christian god. If I'm lost on a trail in the woods without signal markers, I couldn't find my way. If someone told me just follow the trail, that could lead anywhere. If someone doesn't have a map (or GPS) how on earth can they find their way out if to them it's not "obvious"?

In the early antiquities, it was mathematics and metrology that formed the basis of beliefs. They didn't just one day philosophize about " god ", they developed mathematics and metrology first, then philosophies around said math / measurements later

 

[Onoma]

I would probably be too busy figuring out how to create a peaceful environment to even think about that. You know, like preventing carnivores from ever coming into existence and not allowing any form of disease to exist.

Interesting, let's extend your reasons to include any and all things people could consider " bad " or " unpleasant "

I have heard this response before, and it is usually put forth by those making statements like " Oh, how is God benevolent when babies get cancer ? ! " and so on

So by " peaceful environment ", do you mean a universe devoid of the things you personally feel are " not good " ?

I've had people say they would make the " perfect universe " ( Which is subjective not objective - biggest problem I have with the claim ) where mosquitoes don't exist, nobody ever gets sick, nobody ever dies, etc

To me that sounds like a universe of pointless existence, there's no hurdles or difficulties to overcome, etc

 

[Thief]

Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?

for years I have posted....
no photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no repeatable experiment

when considering God and His creation
all you CAN do is think about it

 

[Koldo]

Interesting, let's extend your reasons to include any and all things people could consider " bad " or " unpleasant "

I have heard this response before, and it is usually put forth by those making statements like " Oh, how is God benevolent when babies get cancer ? ! " and so on

So by " peaceful environment ", do you mean a universe devoid of the things you personally feel are " not good " ?

I've had people say they would make the " perfect universe " ( Which is subjective not objective - biggest problem I have with the claim ) where mosquitoes don't exist, nobody ever gets sick, nobody ever dies, etc

To me that sounds like a universe of pointless existence, there's no hurdles or difficulties to overcome, etc

Do you mean our existence can only be meaningful if we get sick, experience pain and die? Well... it must suck really hard to be God then. If you were God, you would destroy yourself right away, right?

 

[Onoma]

Do you mean our existence can only be meaningful if we get sick, experience pain and die? Well... it must suck really hard to be God then. If you were God, you would destroy yourself right away, right?

No, actually I'm pointing out your rather wonky logic

I could easily take your position and say something like " Well, in my perfect universe, nobody gets sick or dies, nobody has to work for anything, toenails never need cutting, headaches never happen, my dishes do themselves , etc "

I'm saying a universe with struggle is better than one without

If that's not succinct enough for ya, oh well

 

[Koldo]

No, actually I'm pointing out your rather wonky logic

I could easily take your position and say something like " Well, in my perfect universe, nobody gets sick or dies, nobody has to work for anything, toenails never need cutting, headaches never happen, my dishes do themselves , etc "

I'm saying a universe with struggle is better than one without

If that's not succinct enough for ya, oh well

Do you mean that if you were God you would destroy yourself since there would be no struggle to you?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In the early antiquities, it was mathematics and metrology that formed the basis of beliefs. They didn't just one day philosophize about " god ", they developed mathematics and metrology first, then philosophies around said math / measurements later

I'm not sure how this answers my question.

 

[Onoma]

I'm not sure how this answers my question.

I guess I am unsure of what the question is, but I'll try again

What you said was this: " I was wondering how does creation, say looking at the sunset, show characteristics of an abrahamic god, without referring to scripture or any written and oral reference related to christianity ? "

" How " would refer to the method ?

That would be metrology- the science of measurement

" Show " would refer to how this was presented ?

That would be data and analysis of the data gleaned while measuring

Where you say " characteristics of an Abrahamic God ", I am unclear what you mean, because this is something that is usually described differently by almost any person asked and seems to be all over the board - God is tolerant, God is intolerant, God is peaceful and loving, God is wrathful and vengeful, and so on

 

[Onoma]

Do you mean that if you were God you would destroy yourself since there would be no struggle to you?

Nope ( Not sure how you inferred that from my posts )

In fact the opposite is true

I would make myself a common man, subject to the harsh reality the rest of mankind is

 

[Koldo]

Nope ( Not sure how you inferred that from my posts )

In fact the opposite is true

I would make myself a common man, subject to the harsh reality the rest of mankind is

Making yourself a man would entail destroying godhood. So, in the end you would destroy God... Okay, I guess.