astral projection is biblical

[Shiranui117]

Give me an example of what that would look like?

I've yet to reach this through God's help, but from what I've read, it means a complete and total recollection of our thoughts. All our thoughts are firmly regathered together; there are no stray thoughts or a wandering mind. Like the Gadarene demoniac after Jesus had exorcised him, we sit at the feet of God in our right minds.

Next, there are no sins blotting us, or our perception, or our souls or bodies. Sin is darkness. If we are in sin, then we are in the darkness of not knowing God. As it says in John's Gospel, everyone who practicing evil hates the light and does not come to it, lest their deeds be exposed. We must repent of our sins and appeal to God Who can cleanse our hearts. For us Orthodox Christians, we have the sacrament of confession to absolve us of our sins, and the Eucharist brings Christ into our bodies in the most intimate of ways. Through repentance and the Sacraments, we are helped by God to walk from the darkness of sin and death and into God's Kingdom, to the Father of lights, so that the light of Christ may shine within us and dispel all the darkness of sin that is within us. Repentance and subduing the passions is very important, for by cleaning up the image of God within us that is stained by sin, we wipe the mud of sin away from our eyes and remove the plank from our eye, allowing us to see God much more clearly. When we have cleaned up our house and made ready for God, then we can open the door to Him, for He stands knocking, even now.

After that, we must be vigilant, watchful, to resist all temptation and to evade all snares of the devil, and also to guard against distractions of all kinds, whether from within or without. We must also be vigilant to wait on the Lord, like the five wise bridesmaids.

Then we must be humble, and practice the virtues. We cannot very well expect to find God within ourselves if we cannot see Him in others; if we neglect the least of our brethren, then we have neglected Christ Who is within them. If we neglect Christ in others, then we surely neglect Christ within ourselves, for the Christ in others is the same Christ within us! Humility is chief among the virtues; it helps us to better fear God, respect our brethren and care for them, to be patient and longsuffering with others, to be wise, to be prudent, to be chaste, and to be honest. All of these virtues are important to having a good relationship with God, which helps us to commune with Him more fully.

We must also read Scripture and the Fathers; we must be acquainted with God's Word to recognize with Whom it is that we come into communion, and what He wants of us. We must read the Fathers to have the experience of many others who have had this deep relationship with God, and to know how to interpret the Scripture.

And, to pray deeply, to have prayer of the heart, to pray in a hesychastic manner, we must begin prayer itself. We must pray for the strength and God's help in doing all that I have outlined above. We must pray persistently and vigorously, like the woman pounding at the judge's door in Luke 18. We must violently take the kingdom of heaven by force as in Matthew 11, and our weapon for this is prayer. Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you will find.

When God finally grants you to commune with Him, the experience might be different depending on who you are. I think some Fathers talk about an unspeakable joy of finding God, never wanting to leave this contact with Him. Some speak of resting in Him. Others have a river of tears for their own sins and for those of the world. Many are overwhelmed by the greatness of God. Many are henceforth blessed with unceasing prayer and awareness of God. No one wants to leave that state.

 

[Quagmire]

There's this (especially the first one):

"2 Corinthians 12:1-4 ESV

I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

Ezekiel 37:1-14 ESV

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley;

Revelation 4:1-2 ESV

After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne.

 

[Jollybear]

May I ask for clarification? What is the take-away spiritual experience of out of body experiences (as contrasted with astral projection)? For instance, flying over the house of your friend, etc. What insights spiritually is derived from this? It seems you're just doing a sort of "remote viewing", as opposed to actually penetrating into spiritual insight and wisdom. What am I missing?

Ok, clarification, yes out of body experiences are sorta like remote viewing, or can be like that depending on what you do when your out of your body, although in my opinion, out of body experiences are far greater and more advanced and more accurate then remote viewing. As for the spiritual insights and wisdom derived from these kinds of experiences, well first it would depend on how you define spiritual insights and wisdom? Next i would say that an out of body experience is nither good nor bad, it can either be used for good or bad. Just like your body, you can use it for good or bad.

Now if we define spiritual insight and wisdom as in learning certain things from our experiences, then yes, we can learn certain things from the experiences of projecting out of body and whatever we do after that.

does this help clarify more?

Shiranui117.... I don't have time to respond to your post tonight, but i will respond tommorow, lord permitting.

 

[Me Myself]

I will seriously consider it provided that it doesn't involve releasing conscious control of my awareness. Thanks for the info.

Meditation should never be about stopping consciousness but the complete opposite, it is about hyper consciousness, a more deep awareness and ability t manage.

 

[Windwalker]

Now if we define spiritual insight and wisdom as in learning certain things from our experiences, then yes, we can learn certain things from the experiences of projecting out of body and whatever we do after that.

does this help clarify more?

What sort of things? I can speak to the experience of astral projection, where you move beyond the ordinary mind into connection with the truly transcendent. There are various obvious insights that occur. But out of body experiences are not really familiar to me. I have had an NDE, but it didn't involve any sort of OBE. I'm not finding myself connecting to it spiritually from what I'm hearing. Is it just a cool experience, or is it transformative in some way that leaves you radically not the same as before the experience?

 

[Jollybear]

You mention that demons are in the spirit realm, and you say that you have to be careful with whom you come into contact, and you're wondering how the spirit world can be unsafe? Would you interact with an angel of light in the spirit world? Satan can come as an angel of light. We are a union of both flesh and spirit, our souls normally only separate from our bodies at death (which is unnatural to us), and you wonder why having out-of-body experiences is unsafe? Our souls are not meant to be divided from our bodies. God intended our souls/spirits to inhabit our bodies.

Well when you think about it further, it's not the spirit world and being in it that is unsafe, it would be interacting with those demons or angels of light that are demons in a mask that would be dangerious. But my point is, you don't have to be out of body to come into contact with a demon, one can come into contact with you through your mind as your in your body, so, in light of this, what would it matter if you were in the spirit realm? If anything, being in the spirit realm, you would then be able to SEE the demon up front as he is, or you would be able to see the angel of light upfront and then you could "test the spirits" just as the bible says to do. We have to "test the spirits" anyway, whether we are in or out of the body. So, in light of that, what would it matter?

True God created our souls to inhabit the body, but the souls will come out of the body at death, so what does it matter if you have a glimps before death? Also well experienced astral projectors who have seen people sleeping have said everyone when they sleep comes out of their body, they just don't remember it or try to do it.

Reading over 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 again, what stands out to me is that being caught up to the third heaven wasn't necessarily an out-of-body experience; Paul doesn't know whether it was an OBE or not.

True, he did not know, but it's my opinion it was an out of body experience.

It bolsters our vanity, ego and pride.

inducing an out of body experience won't bolster vanity, ego and pride if we are careful, and we are careful by realizing this is a natural ability we have and many other people do it and anyone can do it. Also if we realize doing this does not make us better then other people because everyone is good at something that we are not good at, realizing these things keeps us humble. However i do realize the potential for pride to creep in, even Paul said about himself "to keep me from becoming conceated over these surpassing visions and revelations it was given me a thorn in my flesh" but yet God still gave him those revelations and visions even though God knew that potential for him to gain pride from the experience could happen. Likewise, just because we induce the experience ourselves and if it did cause pride, still the experience was not what was bad, it is our own pride that is what's bad. For example, if someone becomes a leader over a great many people, and that causes him to have pride, does that now mean leadership is evil? Of course not, it's the same with inducing out of body experiences, would it not?

Yes. Even taking a walk for the sake of taking a walk distracts us from God. You can take a walk, and marvel at God's creation, and say with the Psalmist, "How manifold are Your works, O Lord; in wisdom have you made them all!" And in this, you are remembering God, and growing closer to Him, even by just taking a walk.

Ok, going along with your line of thinking here, if i take a walk and marvel at God's creation and say "how manifold are your works, O Lord, in wisdom have you made them all!" that would be good. Ok, now i induce an out of body experience, fly up and outside the milky way galaxy and look down at it and say in acstacy "how manifold are your works, O Lord, in wisdom have you made them all!" would that not be good?

Tell me, is it natural to jump off a bridge to your death? You have the ability to do that, and it's natural, if we define natural as real.

But inducing an out of body experience, how is it like jumping off a bridge? Jumping off a brindge would kill you, inducing an out of body experience won't kill you, or even hurt you, if you think it can hurt you, how could it?

And which of this information is important to our salvation?

None of the information on how to have an out of body experience is important to our salvation, just like all information about home improvement is not important to our salvation, information about gardening is not important to our salvation, information about cars is not important to our salvation, information about computers, list can go on and on, but is that mean the information is not good information or useful? of course not.

Out-of-body experiences are also not necessary to contact God "more directly." All we need to do is pray with our eyes, ears and hearts open, and we will experience Him directly, come into contact with Him, commune with Him, and rest in Him.

Sorry, let me define what i meant by more directly, i should not have used that word. Your right, we can contact God directly whether we are IN or out of the body. What i mean is, when we contact God IN the body, we tend to feel the light of peace and joy that is unspeakable it's that amazing, but we don't SEE his pressence, we feel it. Well if you were to experience the same peace and joy while out of the body, you would not just feel it, you would SEE it. So this joy and peace that lights upon you, you would literally see a LIGHT come upon you when you are out of your body. That is what i am talking about, you would experience him on a different level or different way. In other words, it's just a variation with experiencing him directly.

 

[Jollybear]

I've yet to reach this through God's help, but from what I've read, it means a complete and total recollection of our thoughts. All our thoughts are firmly regathered together; there are no stray thoughts or a wandering mind. Like the Gadarene demoniac after Jesus had exorcised him, we sit at the feet of God in our right minds.

Next, there are no sins blotting us, or our perception, or our souls or bodies. Sin is darkness. If we are in sin, then we are in the darkness of not knowing God. As it says in John's Gospel, everyone who practicing evil hates the light and does not come to it, lest their deeds be exposed. We must repent of our sins and appeal to God Who can cleanse our hearts. For us Orthodox Christians, we have the sacrament of confession to absolve us of our sins, and the Eucharist brings Christ into our bodies in the most intimate of ways. Through repentance and the Sacraments, we are helped by God to walk from the darkness of sin and death and into God's Kingdom, to the Father of lights, so that the light of Christ may shine within us and dispel all the darkness of sin that is within us. Repentance and subduing the passions is very important, for by cleaning up the image of God within us that is stained by sin, we wipe the mud of sin away from our eyes and remove the plank from our eye, allowing us to see God much more clearly. When we have cleaned up our house and made ready for God, then we can open the door to Him, for He stands knocking, even now.

After that, we must be vigilant, watchful, to resist all temptation and to evade all snares of the devil, and also to guard against distractions of all kinds, whether from within or without. We must also be vigilant to wait on the Lord, like the five wise bridesmaids.

Then we must be humble, and practice the virtues. We cannot very well expect to find God within ourselves if we cannot see Him in others; if we neglect the least of our brethren, then we have neglected Christ Who is within them. If we neglect Christ in others, then we surely neglect Christ within ourselves, for the Christ in others is the same Christ within us! Humility is chief among the virtues; it helps us to better fear God, respect our brethren and care for them, to be patient and longsuffering with others, to be wise, to be prudent, to be chaste, and to be honest. All of these virtues are important to having a good relationship with God, which helps us to commune with Him more fully.

We must also read Scripture and the Fathers; we must be acquainted with God's Word to recognize with Whom it is that we come into communion, and what He wants of us. We must read the Fathers to have the experience of many others who have had this deep relationship with God, and to know how to interpret the Scripture.

And, to pray deeply, to have prayer of the heart, to pray in a hesychastic manner, we must begin prayer itself. We must pray for the strength and God's help in doing all that I have outlined above. We must pray persistently and vigorously, like the woman pounding at the judge's door in Luke 18. We must violently take the kingdom of heaven by force as in Matthew 11, and our weapon for this is prayer. Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you will find.

When God finally grants you to commune with Him, the experience might be different depending on who you are. I think some Fathers talk about an unspeakable joy of finding God, never wanting to leave this contact with Him. Some speak of resting in Him. Others have a river of tears for their own sins and for those of the world. Many are overwhelmed by the greatness of God. Many are henceforth blessed with unceasing prayer and awareness of God. No one wants to leave that state.

This sounds good, i agree, i like it. You never experienced this unspeakable joy? Or the river of tears? I have experienced both, not all the time though.

 

[Jollybear]

What sort of things? I can speak to the experience of astral projection, where you move beyond the ordinary mind into connection with the truly transcendent. There are various obvious insights that occur. But out of body experiences are not really familiar to me. I have had an NDE, but it didn't involve any sort of OBE. I'm not finding myself connecting to it spiritually from what I'm hearing. Is it just a cool experience, or is it transformative in some way that leaves you radically not the same as before the experience?

Ok, my experience based on your definitions, is not astral projection of the mind, but a self induced out of body experience is what i had. Is it just a cool experience? It indeed is a cool experience yes, but it's not JUST a cool experience. As for transformative? Depends, when i returned to my body, i still had the same personality, same job, same wife, same life, but the only thing that got transformed i gaus was i had an increasing awareness that there is this spirit realm. I was not just aware of it because i "believed it" in my head, but now i seen it, and that memory of seeing it, was this NEW awareness. So i gauss that was the only thing that got transformed. Was I more at peace, more joyfull? Not really, only the presence of God gives that, an out of body experience is just an out of body experience, nothing more, nothing less. However you can use an out of body experience for many different things. It's a TOOL. Can you come to have insights from an out of body experience, of course, but you would only get them depending on what you did AFTER you came out of your body.

For instance, if i induce an out of body experience and then pop out of my body, look at my body laying down and then look around at the room and then jump back in my body. Was their any insights or wisdom gathered from that? Hardly not, perhaps the only "insight" was that i now KNOW the spirit realm is real and i am more then a body, im also a soul. But can you get more insights then this? Yes, but you would only get those if you venture further, that would mean fly out of the house through your wall, fly over the city, go to your friends house, fly to a church meeting, experiment. Then by doing that, you will gain more insights and wisdom from it. So, yes you can gain insights, but it would depend on how much you do or what you do after you come out of the body.

 

[InChrist]

Now if we define spiritual insight and wisdom as in learning certain things from our experiences, then yes, we can learn certain things from the experiences of projecting out of body and whatever we do after that.

The question then is are the things one learns during the experiential state of astral projection true and trustworthy? Or is there the possibility that one"s experiences can manipulated by malevolent demonic beings? And how does one test the truthfulness of such experiences?


"A voluntary out-of-body experience, or an “astral projection,” is a different story. A person trying to achieve an out-of-body experience in order to connect with spirits or the spirit world is practicing the occult."

"The Bible explicitly warns against occult practice, or sorcery, in Galatians 5:19-20, saying that those who practice it will not inherit God's kingdom. God's commands are always for our good, and He commands us to stay far away from occult practices because there is great potential, when trying to access the spiritual world, of opening oneself up to demons who can tell us lies about God and confuse our minds."

excerpt from:

What does the Bible say about an out of body experience / astral projection?

 

[Jollybear]

The question then is are the things one learns during the experiential state of astral projection true and trustworthy? Or is there the possibility that one"s experiences can manipulated by malevolent demonic beings? And how does one test the truthfulness of such experiences?

You test the experience of what you hear and see in the spirit realm with the word of God, with the Holy Spirit, with logic, with your gut feeling. All of that together. Demons don't OWN the spirit realm that you would be projected into, so they can't manipulate that, they may try to manipulate you, but then you have a choice to be manipulated or not. And we are told by God's word to "test the spirits". The bible does not tell us to "test the spirit realm", that's kind of stupid to do anyhow.

If your soul is projected into the spirit realm out of your body, and you will your self to move around in the spirit realm, well that is a simple test to know it's YOU doing that and not a demon and not God, it's you. Also the world around you, that's the realm, that's not a demon, a demon would be an entity WITHIN the SAME realm you are projected into. God would also be in that same realm, holy angels would be in that same realm, other human souls would be in that same realm.

 

[InChrist]

You test the experience of what you hear and see in the spirit realm with the word of God, with the Holy Spirit, with logic, with your gut feeling. All of that together. Demons don't OWN the spirit realm that you would be projected into, so they can't manipulate that, they may try to manipulate you, but then you have a choice to be manipulated or not. And we are told by God's word to "test the spirits". The bible does not tell us to "test the spirit realm", that's kind of stupid to do anyhow.

If your soul is projected into the spirit realm out of your body, and you will your self to move around in the spirit realm, well that is a simple test to know it's YOU doing that and not a demon and not God, it's you. Also the world around you, that's the realm, that's not a demon, a demon would be an entity WITHIN the SAME realm you are projected into. God would also be in that same realm, holy angels would be in that same realm, other human souls would be in that same realm.

I believe if you are traveling into the spirit realm via astral projection then you are already violating God's warnings and directions concerning how a person must approach Him and understand spiritual realities...through Jesus Christ alone according to the scriptures. Therefore any other testing is in vain and futile. By entering the spiritual realm by a different means you have placed yourself outside of God's protection and discernment leaving yourself open to deception.

 

[Jollybear]

I believe if you are traveling into the spirit realm via astral projection then you are already violating God's warnings and directions concerning how a person must approach Him and understand spiritual realities

Where did God specifically warn against inducing out of body experiences?

...through Jesus Christ alone according to the scriptures.

The scriptures say salvation is only through Jesus christ, that is what that is reffering to. The scripture is not saying that everything taught in other religions is USELESS information, reffering specifically to meditation in order to induce OBE.

Therefore any other testing is in vain and futile.

If anything, it would be easier to test a spirit being out of your body since then you would KNOW it's a spirit and not just the flesh. Because when we are in our body, sometimes it's our flesh, sometimes it's the devil.

By entering the spiritual realm by a different means you have placed yourself outside of God's protection and discernment leaving yourself open to deception.

How does being in the spirit realm place you outside of God's protection and discernment?

Also you did not address my point about gelatians: the word sorcery in gelatians 5:19-20 is the greek word "pharmakia" where we get the word "pharmacy" from and this pharmakia means "the use or the administering of drugs" or "poisoning" or "sorcery, magical a rts, often found in CONNECTION with idolatry and fostered by it" or "the deceptions and seductions of idolatry".

Now inducing an out of body experience is not worshiping another god or an idol, it's not taking drugs, it's not poison. So what say you now? The pot thickens, lets here what you have to say?

 

[Windwalker]

The question then is are the things one learns during the experiential state of astral projection true and trustworthy? Or is there the possibility that one"s experiences can manipulated by malevolent demonic beings? And how does one test the truthfulness of such experiences?


"A voluntary out-of-body experience, or an “astral projection,” is a different story. A person trying to achieve an out-of-body experience in order to connect with spirits or the spirit world is practicing the occult."

"The Bible explicitly warns against occult practice, or sorcery, in Galatians 5:19-20, saying that those who practice it will not inherit God's kingdom. God's commands are always for our good, and He commands us to stay far away from occult practices because there is great potential, when trying to access the spiritual world, of opening oneself up to demons who can tell us lies about God and confuse our minds."

excerpt from:

What does the Bible say about an out of body experience / astral projection?

What makes this person's opinions (which I see as ill-informed), authoritative answers to this question? I can quote the Bible too, yet you prefer his reading over mine. Doesn't this say more about how we approach things differently, and it's not a matter of have an "authoritative" voice outside ourselves? I think it may be some time before you see this however my friend.

Regard spiritual practices, I wrote a really spiffy topic that no one seemed to catch onto. I'll link to it here as I think it goes to the very heart of questions such as this topic raises. I'd really be interested in discussion of the points I raised in there: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tes/149268-dictating-spiritual-practices.html

 

[Windwalker]

Ok, my experience based on your definitions, is not astral projection of the mind, but a self induced out of body experience is what i had. Is it just a cool experience? It indeed is a cool experience yes, but it's not JUST a cool experience. As for transformative? Depends, when i returned to my body, i still had the same personality, same job, same wife, same life, but the only thing that got transformed i gaus was i had an increasing awareness that there is this spirit realm. I was not just aware of it because i "believed it" in my head, but now i seen it, and that memory of seeing it, was this NEW awareness. So i gauss that was the only thing that got transformed. Was I more at peace, more joyfull? Not really, only the presence of God gives that, an out of body experience is just an out of body experience, nothing more, nothing less. However you can use an out of body experience for many different things. It's a TOOL. Can you come to have insights from an out of body experience, of course, but you would only get them depending on what you did AFTER you came out of your body.

For instance, if i induce an out of body experience and then pop out of my body, look at my body laying down and then look around at the room and then jump back in my body. Was their any insights or wisdom gathered from that? Hardly not, perhaps the only "insight" was that i now KNOW the spirit realm is real and i am more then a body, im also a soul. But can you get more insights then this? Yes, but you would only get those if you venture further, that would mean fly out of the house through your wall, fly over the city, go to your friends house, fly to a church meeting, experiment. Then by doing that, you will gain more insights and wisdom from it. So, yes you can gain insights, but it would depend on how much you do or what you do after you come out of the body.

I'm curious, in making this distinction between OBE and astral projection, if you've ever experienced the subtle-level, as described here:

"As your identity begins to transcend the isolated and individual bodymind, you start to intuit that there is a Ground of Being or genuine Divinity, beyond ego, and beyond appeals to mythic god figures or rationalistic scientism or existential bravery. This Deity form can actually be intuited. The more you develop beyond the isolated and existential bodymind, the more you develop toward Spirit, which, at the subtle level, is often experienced as Deity Form or archetypal Self. By that I mean, for example, very concrete clarity and brilliance of awareness.

The point is that you are seeing something beyond nature, beyond the existential, beyond the psychic, beyond even cosmic identity. You are starting to see the hidden or esoteric dimension, the dimension outside the ordinary cosmos, the dimension that transcends nature. You see the Light, and sometimes this Light literally shines like the light of a thousand suns. It overwhelms you, empowers you, energizes you, remakes you, drenches you. This is what scholars have called the “numinous” nature of subtle spirit. Numinous and luminous. This is, I believe, why saints are universally depicted with halos of light around their heads. That is actually what they see. Divine Light. My favorite reading from Dante:

Fixing my gaze upon the Eternal Light I saw within its depths, Bound up with love together in one volume, The scattered leaves of all the universe. Within the luminous profound subsistence Of that Exalted Light saw I three circles Of three colors yet of one dimension And by the second seemed the first reflected As rainbow is by rainbow, and the third Seemed fire that equally from both is breathed.

That is not mere poetry. That is an almost mathematical description of one type of experience of the subtle level. Anyway, you can also experience this level as a discovery of your own higher self, you soul, the Holy Spirit. “He who knows himself knows God,” said Saint Clement."

- See more at: Stages of Meditation | Integral Life​

When I refer to astral projection, this above very aptly describes what that is. I highly recommend you reading the whole article linked to as it is quite informative.

InChrist, and other fundamentalists continually claim you won't be able to know if you are encountering God or a demon. I'm going to say point blank that this is absurd. When someone enters into the presence of God, all doubt vanishes! You KNOW it is God. There is no doubt at all. It overwhelms you with Truth and Knowledge, Infinite Mind where there is One and no other.

I had mentioned my NDE I had when I was 18, and what I experienced was a complete cessation of time, Infinite Mind, knowledge, love, compassion, power, etc, etc all pressed down upon me in but a sliver of infinity that was an infinity in itself. Nothing existed but That, and it flooded all of who I was, showing my whole life before my eyes and how I was always known and loved and embraced by that which is the infinite and eternal God.

Every time I meditate I enter into this. How do I know it's not the devil? Oh, what a sad, foolish question! If you meet God, you Know.

 

[Jollybear]

I'm curious, in making this distinction between OBE and astral projection, if you've ever experienced the subtle-level, as described here:

"As your identity begins to transcend the isolated and individual bodymind, you start to intuit that there is a Ground of Being or genuine Divinity, beyond ego, and beyond appeals to mythic god figures or rationalistic scientism or existential bravery. This Deity form can actually be intuited. The more you develop beyond the isolated and existential bodymind, the more you develop toward Spirit, which, at the subtle level, is often experienced as Deity Form or archetypal Self. By that I mean, for example, very concrete clarity and brilliance of awareness.

The point is that you are seeing something beyond nature, beyond the existential, beyond the psychic, beyond even cosmic identity. You are starting to see the hidden or esoteric dimension, the dimension outside the ordinary cosmos, the dimension that transcends nature. You see the Light, and sometimes this Light literally shines like the light of a thousand suns. It overwhelms you, empowers you, energizes you, remakes you, drenches you. This is what scholars have called the “numinous” nature of subtle spirit. Numinous and luminous. This is, I believe, why saints are universally depicted with halos of light around their heads. That is actually what they see. Divine Light. My favorite reading from Dante:

Fixing my gaze upon the Eternal Light I saw within its depths, Bound up with love together in one volume, The scattered leaves of all the universe. Within the luminous profound subsistence Of that Exalted Light saw I three circles Of three colors yet of one dimension And by the second seemed the first reflected As rainbow is by rainbow, and the third Seemed fire that equally from both is breathed.

That is not mere poetry. That is an almost mathematical description of one type of experience of the subtle level. Anyway, you can also experience this level as a discovery of your own higher self, you soul, the Holy Spirit. “He who knows himself knows God,” said Saint Clement."

- See more at: Stages of Meditation | Integral Life


When I refer to astral projection, this above very aptly describes what that is. I highly recommend you reading the whole article linked to as it is quite informative.
​

My experience was not exactly like yours was, although i have experienced the pressence of God, that sense of peace, rupturious joy deep within my belly, overwhelmingly glorious. I also had about a 15 minute vision about ten years ago of hell and heaven, and in heaven i seen this "light" which you are talking about. It came from the face of Jesus, was like hundreds of rays of light comming from his face, you could not make out his facial features because of it. Also light beams also comming from his body. The light would hit me and then go through and in me.

But my out of body experience was different then this vision I had, the vision was like a visual pictures in my minds eye when i seen hell and heaven. But my OBE which was self induced through meditation, that was different. It was just like my being came outside my body and walked around my room and i seen my body laying their. And it was like i was awake, it was not a vision or dreamlike in nature, it was indistinguashable from waking life. But when i seen this vision and the light, while i was having this vision, the joy was rapturious.
​

InChrist, and other fundamentalists continually claim you won't be able to know if you are encountering God or a demon. I'm going to say point blank that this is absurd. When someone enters into the presence of God, all doubt vanishes! You KNOW it is God. There is no doubt at all. It overwhelms you with Truth and Knowledge, Infinite Mind where there is One and no other.

I agree with this, when one encounters God, you know it's not a demon. Just as scripture says in the book of Romans "the kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but of love, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit (God)." A demon cannot give you peace, love and joy, because a demon does not have those things to give. Those fundamentalists need to THINK. Jesus said "a bad tree does not bear good fruit and a good tree does not bear bad fruit". A demon cannot bear good fruit.

I had mentioned my NDE I had when I was 18, and what I experienced was a complete cessation of time, Infinite Mind, knowledge, love, compassion, power, etc, etc all pressed down upon me in but a sliver of infinity that was an infinity in itself. Nothing existed but That, and it flooded all of who I was, showing my whole life before my eyes and how I was always known and loved and embraced by that which is the infinite and eternal God.

I believe it and agree with it.

Every time I meditate I enter into this. How do I know it's not the devil? Oh, what a sad, foolish question! If you meet God, you Know.

Amen.

 

[InChrist]

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14


A human can easily be impressed and deceived by the angel of light... Lucifer, Satan. An experience or a feeling that it "must be God" because it's so blissful, light and peaceful is exactly what Satan wants you to believe.

 

[InChrist]

What makes this person's opinions (which I see as ill-informed), authoritative answers to this question? I can quote the Bible too, yet you prefer his reading over mine. Doesn't this say more about how we approach things differently, and it's not a matter of have an "authoritative" voice outside ourselves? I think it may be some time before you see this however my friend.

Regard spiritual practices, I wrote a really spiffy topic that no one seemed to catch onto. I'll link to it here as I think it goes to the very heart of questions such as this topic raises. I'd really be interested in discussion of the points I raised in there: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tes/149268-dictating-spiritual-practices.html

I agree with this person's opinion because, from my perspective, their view is based on and confined to the authority of God's Word.

Thanks for the link, I read your thread and responded.

 

[Windwalker]

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14


A human can easily be impressed and deceived by the angel of light... Lucifer, Satan. An experience or a feeling that it "must be God" because it's so blissful, light and peaceful is exactly what Satan wants you to believe.

You do not understand. It is not a thought "This must be God" that occurs. You KNOW it is God. So much so, that the entire course and direction of my life for the last 30 years has been an insatiable thirst to re-unite with this! If you had ever had an experience such as this, there would be no doubt in your mind at all. You entire being is engulfed within it. Time stands still. It is pure, infinite Love that embraces you in light, and your heart, mind, soul and being is removed from all fear and placed within its eternal arms.

And you say this could be the devil, based on your reading of that verse? No offense, but that is laughable.

"And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house".​

If that was the devil, than through the devil I seek God. What a silly argument.

 

[InChrist]

You do not understand. It is not a thought "This must be God" that occurs. You KNOW it is God. So much so, that the entire course and direction of my life for the last 30 years has been an insatiable thirst to re-unite with this! If you had ever had an experience such as this, there would be no doubt in your mind at all. You entire being is engulfed within it. Time stands still. It is pure, infinite Love that embraces you in light, and your heart, mind, soul and being is removed from all fear and placed within its eternal arms.

And you say this could be the devil, based on your reading of that verse? No offense, but that is laughable.

"And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand? If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. “But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house".​

If that was the devil, than through the devil I seek God. What a silly argument.

Well, it seems that the result of your experience(s) which engulfs your spirit has not impacted your loyalty to love and serve Jesus Christ, but rather has influenced you to embrace the philosophy that all roads lead to God which is exactly what Satan wants people to believe.

 

[Jollybear]

And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14


A human can easily be impressed and deceived by the angel of light... Lucifer, Satan. An experience or a feeling that it "must be God" because it's so blissful, light and peaceful is exactly what Satan wants you to believe.

Your confusing a few different things here. One, an out of body experience is the soul projects out of the body into the spirit realm. Secondly, the spirit realm is it's own world. Thirdly, satan can be an angel of light in that realm, but he is not the realm of the spirit itself. And he is not your soul projecting out of it's body into the spirit realm. He is his own entity. So the experience of the soul projecting out of body is not satan and the spirit realm is not satan. Yes satan can appear as an angel of light in the spirit realm. Yes you can see light, but that light will not give you peace, love or joy. Satan cannot give you joy, he does not have it to give. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. How do you deal with that scripture and this logic?

Now when you see Gods light and are ingulfed in it, it will give joy, satans light will not give that. That is how you discern good and evil, that is one of the ways you discern. Scripture gives many different tests, that's one of them. What is the fruit.