At Cornell (Finally) A Stand for Academic Freedom and Against Wokeness

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not even talking about undiagnosed medical conditions yet.

In a first-year class of, say, 100 people, how many students do you think will have a diagnosed mental health condition that needs some sort of accommodation?

... and then think about how the same course could could have 3 or 4 separate classes in one term, and then be offered twice a year. That's like 600-800 people a year just for one course... but people like @PureX argue that it isn't worth the prof's time to identify which content warnings - from a standard list the school develops - apply to reading material they ought to already be very familiar with.

1. Your contention that trigger warnings help people with mental illnesses in the way that electric doors help people in wheelchairs is completely overstated.

2. Evidence that trigger warnings help people with mental illness is mixed at best.

3. You would be better served to read the article...or investigate the issue more broadly...than skim it and stick to your position because it feels right to you.

 

[Heyo]

Oh i support the use of trigger warnings use them myself.

RF supports the use of trigger warnings by having implemented the spoiler feature.

 

[fantome profane]

We didn't really have "trigger warnings" when I was in school. Although if something was pretty graphic or nasty, it would usually be mentioned ahead of time. And of course, they introduced movie ratings a long time ago, so those might be an early precursor to "trigger warnings."

That is not a “precursor” to trigger warnings. That is a trigger warning. That is what a trigger warning is. It might not have been called a trigger warning, but it was.

Trigger warnings are not something new. Someone invents a new label for an old thing can make some people think this old thing is new, but it isn’t.

People have been using trigger warnings since the beginning of language, if not before that. It wouldn’t surprise me if an Australopithecine used body language or facial expressions to warn a friend before showing them something upsetting.

And a good teacher, or storyteller, or just a good friend, should know when to use a trigger warning, and perhaps when not too. Communication is an art, I am not a fan of authority decreeing someone must, or must not, communicate in this way.

 

[VoidCat]

Yes, but do you see a limit in regards to handicaps and line of work?

I dont think it's hard to add a trigger warning of common triggers you dont need everything just common triggers. And i think that as @Guitar's Cry. Pointed out someone who'd be trigger by something like say Rape probably already has real world experience with the topic. If something is really really needed to know then there can be a compromise between the student and the teacher. Dont know what that might be like maybe talking about the issue but not going into extreme detail like mentioning that folk were raped during the Korean war but not giving a graphic account of someone being raped. Maybe send the student out for the graphic part if the teacher feels it's that important with the student knowing that rape occurred in the situation. Oh and if a student is triggered maybe by an uncommon trigger have them see the counselor to help them calm down. Im triggered by rats due to some past trauma regarding them for example and i wouldnt expect a trigger warning for rats.

 

[Heyo]

And a good teacher, or storyteller, or just a good friend, should know when to use a trigger warning, and perhaps when not too. Communication is an art, I am not a fan of authority decreeing someone must, or must not, communicate in this way.

Yep.
And that is exactly what the student wanted.

That day, she drafted a resolution urging instructors to provide warnings on the syllabus about “traumatic content” that might be discussed in class, including sexual assault, self-harm and transphobic violence.

Urging, not making it mandatory. Just an appeal to the teachers empathy.
The university took this completely out of proportion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

1. Your contention that trigger warnings help people with mental illnesses in the way that electric doors help people in wheelchairs is completely overstated.

A cleaner analogy would be the warning for epileptics before movies or stage shows that strobing effects are being used.

2. Evidence that trigger warnings help people with mental illness is mixed at best.

3. You would be better served to read the article...or investigate the issue more broadly...than skim it and stick to your position because it feels right to you.

In general, I don't put much weight behind random people on the internet telling me what should be on my reading list.

You posted the link in the context of a debate and in lieu of giving an actual argument yourself. I've considered it in that context: as a random link provided by someone who couldn't even be bothered to copy-paste the specific quotes they thought were especially relevant to the discussion.

 

[Orbit]

As a professor, I think it's just common courtesy to tell students there is graphic material in any course material. I don't call it a "trigger warning" but it is one in essence. The students appreciate it and it avoids problems. It has nothing to do with academic freedom or "wokeness".

 

[PureX]

Isn't the point of an education to learn how to overcome being "triggered" by unexpected information, revelation, artifice, etc.,? All the more reason not to cater to such illness or weakness, and instead, provide the tools to help the students overcome it. Which is, in fact, what most colleges already do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Isn't the point of an education to learn how to overcome being "triggered" by unexpected information, revelation, artifice, etc.,? All the more reason not to cater to such illness or weakness, and instead, provide the tools to help the students overcome it. Which is, in fact, what most colleges already do.

No, the purpose of higher education is to enable personal development or to equip students with the skills and knowledge required for their professional career.

Causing a student to have a mental health crisis in class does not help to achieve either of these goals; in fact, it's an obstacle to them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

My impression was that college students were expected to either be mature late adolescents or on their way to maturity. People who are mature or maturing need to learn to "roll with the punches" as long as those punches are verbal and not actual violence.

It's a good way of saying and sending the message to finally , "grow up".

College is definitely not for 18-22 year old immature children.

The college decided it was not their place to pander to one student's emotional weaknesses by labeling the content of educational materials for all students. A perfectly reasonable choice.

I'm ambivalent on the whole issue of trigger warnings in college courses, but PTSD most certainly is not a sign of "immaturity" or "weakness." It's a potentially disabling condition that can affect anyone from war veterans and law enforcement personnel to people who have undergone major surgery and women who have given birth.

A far better argument against trigger warnings would, in my opinion, be the existence of mixed evidence that they help at all. For example:

The Following News Release Contains Potentially Disturbing Content: Trigger Warnings Fail to Help and May Even Harm

New research confirms trigger warnings have little or no benefit.

www.psychologicalscience.org

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

Even then, the issue isn't settled or unnuanced, so I'm not inclined to casually dismiss arguments for trigger warnings or label them as "weak," "immature," etc.

 

[PureX]

No, the purpose of higher education is to enable personal development or to equip students with the skills and knowledge required for their professional career.

You don't think that would include gaining the ability not to be "triggered" by personal unresolved trauma?

Causing a student to have a mental health crisis in class does not help to achieve either of these goals; in fact, it's an obstacle to them.

If a student is having a mental health crises, he/she needs professional mental health care.

 

[Revoltingest]

RF supports the use of trigger warnings by having implemented the spoiler feature.

RF supports avoiding loss of advertising
revenue due to advertisers wanting to
avoid giving offense.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You don't think that would include gaining the ability not to be "triggered" by personal unresolved trauma?

That ability is gained through therapy, and it can take years to work through with medical professionals, sometimes without full resolution of symptoms. It's not gained by merely being randomly exposed to PTSD triggers in a classroom or another everyday setting.

Also, I'm not sure why you put "triggered" in quotation marks. It's a medically recognized term:

What Are PTSD Triggers?

When you have posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD), certain things can set off your symptoms. Learn about possible triggers and why you develop them.

www.webmd.com

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You don't think that would include gaining the ability not to be "triggered" by personal unresolved trauma?

They should certainly work on that with their mental health provider.

What you're proposing is a lot like shooting strobe lights at epileptics to help them "gain the ability" not to have seizures. It's asinine.

If a student is having a mental health crises, he/she needs professional mental health care.

Definitely. And people who receive mental health care still attend school, have jobs, live their lives, etc. They deserve reasonable accommodation.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm ambivalent on the whole issue of trigger warnings in college courses, but PTSD most certainly is not a sign of "immaturity" or "weakness." It's a potentially disabling condition that can affect anyone from war veterans and law enforcement personnel to people who have undergone major surgery and women who have given birth.

A far better argument against trigger warnings would, in my opinion, be the existence of mixed evidence that they help at all. For example:

The Following News Release Contains Potentially Disturbing Content: Trigger Warnings Fail to Help and May Even Harm

New research confirms trigger warnings have little or no benefit.

www.psychologicalscience.org

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

Even then, the issue isn't settled or unnuanced, so I'm not inclined to casually dismiss arguments for trigger warnings or label them as "weak," "immature," etc.

Think of it as a slap by Patton. Another war veteran.

 

[Heyo]

RF supports avoiding loss of advertising
revenue due to advertisers wanting to
avoid giving offense.

Woke corporations?

Anyway, even if they wanted to give offense, they'd not be able. Remember: offense is always taken, never given.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Think of it as a slap by Patton. Another war veteran.

I'm not sure what you mean. Would you mind elaborating?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Woke corporations?

It has to do with age ratings and content guidelines; some corporations want visibility among a large audience that includes minors. As a result, they enforce a PG-equivalent rating on sites that wish to list their ads and make money from said ads.

"Wokeness" is entirely irrelevant to that. It's just a classic example of money talking.

 

[jbg]

What does any of this have to do with "wokeness" or "cancel culture"? The college decided it was not their place to pander to one student's emotional weaknesses by labeling the content of educational materials for all students. A perfectly reasonable choice. Especially when the student in question could have and should have availed herself of the psychological help the college makes available to all students for just this kind of situation.

Cornell's level of psychological help is questionable but basically I agree with you.

 

[Revoltingest]

Woke corporations?

Anyway, even if they wanted to give offense, they'd not be able. Remember: offense is always taken, never given.

Think of catering to the woke folk.
But not being woke.