Atheism: A belief?

[LuisDantas]

Belief is used twice in this sentence and yet I am to pretend it doesn't exist.

No. You are to realize that a lack of belief is no belief.

If you have no scientific knowledge and you grew up in the jungle and say no animals other than a ones you know exist. This is still a belief.

Are you proposing that God only exists for some people then?

Because I don't see how the parallel would apply otherwise. Aren't we all supposed to be living in the same world and seeing the same evidence (or lack thereof) of God's existence?

If you have never had any knowledge of the moon because you lived in a cave all your life. The word for moon is not in you vocabulary. Someone comes in your cave and tells you the moon exists you refuse to leave your cave an see it. It is still a belief.

That is not a very good parallel. Leaving the cave to see the moon is possible. Objective evidence of God's existence, by constrast, is lacking.

Just because an individual is unaware of something does not exclude them from belief

It does, when said belief is about an abstract concept that they have never met or imagined.

but the contrary to exclude anything even flying pink elephants one must prove there non-existance or they believe they don't exist simply because they haven't observed them in their limited existance.

Or they may simply say that they don't know of the existence of any flying pink elephants.

 

[LuisDantas]

And the echo of disbelief will fade.

You do realize...
For your postings to be right...you have to be dead right.

Right?

Because we can't trust God to be reasonable, is that what you mean?

 

[Alceste]

And the echo of disbelief will fade.

You do realize...
For your postings to be right...you have to be dead right.

Right?

For my postings to be right, you have to be wrong. I'm cool with that. I like the odds.

 

[Thief]

Because we can't trust God to be reasonable, is that what you mean?

No.....disbelief will leave you dysfunctional.

If there is life after death.....don't you expect to 'fit in'.
And doing so requires preparation?

Or back to the ground you go....and your life was good for what?

 

[waitasec]

Calling God silly?
Really?

maybe he's not calling YOUR god silly...


YOUR god is to be feared apparently...there is no room for sarcasm in heaven especially at YOUR gods expense...he's way tooo sensitive

 

[Thief]

For my postings to be right, you have to be wrong. I'm cool with that. I like the odds.

A loser's bet...you have nothing to gain.

 

[Thief]

maybe he's not calling YOUR god silly...


YOUR god is to be feared apparently...there is no room for sarcasm in heaven especially at YOUR gods expense...he's way tooo sensitive

And you lack sensitivity?
Not a reflection of God ....are you?

 

[bobhikes]

1)No. You are to realize that a lack of belief is no belief.

2)Are you proposing that God only exists for some people then?

Because I don't see how the parallel would apply otherwise. Aren't we all supposed to be living in the same world and seeing the same evidence (or lack thereof) of God's existence?


3)That is not a very good parallel. Leaving the cave to see the moon is possible. Objective evidence of God's existence, by constrast, is lacking.


4)It does, when said belief is about an abstract concept that they have never met or imagined.


Or they may simply say that they don't know of the existence of any flying pink elephants.

1) you can't have lack of belief you can only have lack of knowledge.

2) I do not propose anything when it comes to god. I have tried to prove and disprove his existance and fail both times. I have read many books that have failed at the same. I can see reasons for both. I chose to believe in the non-existance of god.

3) Describe to me the proof you have for an individual blind from birth that the moon exists as fact.

4) Have you ever met my brothers daughter. See has beautiful golden hair and green eyes. She will be a model when she grows up. Is this an abstract concept or a factual one. How do you know?

 

[Alceste]

A loser's bet...you nothing to gain.

I have this world to gain, and this life. While you're busy frittering your short life away packing for a trip that may never occur to a destination that you know nothing about, I'm here in the world, making the most of the time that I have. I see no advantage to be gained by obsessing about death and deluding myself that the real show starts then. There are many advantages to be gained by living as if this life is all you have, regardless of whether or not that's true.

 

[LuisDantas]

No.....disbelief will leave you dysfunctional.

If there is life after death.....don't you expect to 'fit in'.
And doing so requires preparation?

Or back to the ground you go....and your life was good for what?

If such a temperamental, unwise God does exist, it is pointless to even try to please him to begin with. Why bother?

 

[Thief]

If such a temperamental, unwise God does exist, it is pointless to even try to please him to begin with. Why bother?

And indeed...the question....why bother?

I bother because I believe in life after death.

If you don't believe.....then the question is yours to answer.

Why are you here?

 

[LuisDantas]

1) you can't have lack of belief you can only have lack of knowledge.

I lack belief in most things I have no reason to believe do exist (such as the forementioned pink flying elephants). Don't you?

2) I do not propose anything when it comes to god. I have tried to prove and disprove his existance and fail both times. I have read many books that have failed at the same. I can see reasons for both. I chose to believe in the non-existance of god.

3) Describe to me the proof you have for an individual blind from birth that the moon exists as fact.

That is a different scenario from the one you proposed previously.

4) Have you ever met my brothers daughter. See has beautiful golden hair and green eyes. She will be a model when she grows up. Is this an abstract concept or a factual one. How do you know?

It is not a concept. It is a hope, a prediction of future events.

 

[Thief]

I have this world to gain, and this life. While you're busy frittering your short life away packing for a trip that may never occur to a destination that you know nothing about, I'm here in the world, making the most of the time that I have. I see no advantage to be gained by obsessing about death and deluding myself that the real show starts then. There are many advantages to be gained by living as if this life is all you have, regardless of whether or not that's true.

This is a gross assumption and misconception.

I am living life to the fullest.

 

[LuisDantas]

And indeed...the question....why bother?

I bother because I believe in life after death.

If you don't believe.....then the question is yours to answer.

Why are you here?

Certainly not to worry about the afterlife.

 

[waitasec]

And you lack sensitivity?
Not a reflection of God ....are you?

i have a sense of humor...
maybe YOUR god doesn't, it seems.

 

[Willamena]

It is my view that there has been a failure to address what is really the core issue in these discussions. There have been numerous threads on this same subject all arguing the point that atheism is somehow akin to religious belief. In every case it seems to me that the purpose is to interpret atheism as being on a par with belief as faith in order to defend the commitment against what unbelievers might see as being irrational, superstitious, or even mere fantasy. ‘We all have our beliefs’ is the charge, then, as if the two positions were somehow equal! That is plainly nonsense. Atheism even at its most extreme is only response to theism: no theism, then no atheism. Atheists do not believe ‘There are no gods’ as a matter of profound faith any more than a theist (or anyone else) believes, with the same level of commitment, that ‘There are no aliens’.

The absolute crux of the matter is to recognise that the mystic’s committed and emotional belief in God, or gods, is a different species altogether from those who have no reason to believe in such; even the most ardent or strong atheists make no claims to certainty, but are constrained by what can be empirically and logically known. Therefore it is both mistaken and misleading to infer, as a general principle, that from a belief that x or y may be true it is the case that one believes x or y is true.

I think the problem is simply that some people's (idea of) "worldview" is much smaller, containing much fewer things, than others. If "atheism" and "theism" can apply to a worldview, then they are not contained in it.

 

[cottage]

I never said religious. At all. Which undermines your argument as my claim for atheism being a religious faith.

Tis merely a concept people believe in, obviously, otherwise they wouldn't take such a label unto themselves.

I don't think we need to split hairs. Religious belief doesn't necessarily require worship or affiliation to any belief system, but belief in a supernatural personal being, especially a causal agent who has an interest in humankind, is certainly a religious view or concept and it is absurd to say otherwise.

An atheist sees no reason to believe that there are deities and so cannot believe in such a view. To believe in something logically requires a prior belief that. But the important distinction, which is not being acknowledged here, is that theists have a dogmatic belief from faith that, by definition, is held to be true independent of any factual or demonstrable evidence. In contrast, no argument or fact compels me to believe that there is a necessary being, but I don't hold a belief from dogma that there is no necessary being, since such a concept remains logically possible. I take exactly the same position with ghosts, aliens creatures, or a self-existent universe. I've yet to be convinced of the things, but I do not believe in their non-existence.

 

[Alceste]

This is a gross assumption and misconception.

I am living life to the fullest.

Then there is nothing you want to do that you have not done for fear of offending your god?

 

[atanu]

Nobody enjoys being misrepresented. I don't believe it is "emotional fervour". The atheists I've seen entering into the debate seem to me to be incredibly patient and unperturbed in the face of much smarmy bigotry and incessant misrepresentation. Kind of like Mormons, generally.

Fact is, it is only a little irritating to have things you don't believe in erroneously ascribed to you and attacked. It isn't upsetting.

The silly idea that atheism is a world view / belief system / religion is like a many-headed hydra. Every time you chop one head off, it grows two more. Theists just can't seem to get enough of it.

I agree to some extent, holding at the same time that atheists can be more caustic at times. For example, if one goes through the original post on which this post is based, one may find many adjectives used. That does not bother me at all, for reasons that I will not go into now.

But, I find it interesting to question as to what burden an atheist has to prove that a theist is wrong?

Another point is that without a belief system, no assertions, negative or positive, can be made. Why an atheist has strong objection to this?

...

 

[Thief]

Certainly not to worry about the afterlife.

And therefore...you don't really have a discussion?