Atheism and anti-religion

[JMorris]

stupid....

 

[Magic Man]

Atheists, might or might not be happy, but they lack something that others have, and that is spirituality.

Not necessarily. Many atheists are spiritual. Some Buddhists are atheists and still spiritual, for instance.

Spirituality is a need in human beings, okay?

No, it's not. It's a need for some human beings, but not for the human race.

okay.. so what I'm saying is, pick a religion, and here is why:

This isn't like a TV or car or something. You don't just look around an pick something and believe it.

Sipirituality makes you healthy.

No, it doesn't. Being happy with who you are makes you healthy.

 

[JMorris]

This isn't like a TV or car or something.

isnt it tho?

No, it doesn't. Being happy with who you are makes you healthy.

bananas make me healthy:danana:

 

[Smoke]

You see, you need to get out of your philosophical comfort zone, and actualy retrospect about this issue, there is not truth, so why not pick in a beliefs, that will give you life meaning, and that "might' be true, not like worshipping a banana, but something that a lot of people believe, or that your ancestors believe, or your own belief!

You're not really telling us to get out of our comfort zone; you're telling us to find one and get in it -- regardless of the plausibility or value of it, just because it will give our lives "meaning."

I hate to tell you, but I'm not interested in any "meaning" I might get from such blatant self-deception.

And by the way ... I have picked a religion. I've changed religions before, and I might again; who knows? But for now, I have a religion. And my religion doesn't ask me to believe in God. It doesn't ask me to believe in anything I can't test the truth of for myself. I'm happily religious, and happily atheist ... and I don't give a damn if you think that means my life lacks meaning.

 

[Riverwolf]

Very true. It's weird though, I know superstitions are illogical but I still cant help myself. I am not crazy superstitious but there are still times when I just do it to be comfortable and confident, especially little things I do before playing in a basketball game. I MUST always make my last shot in warmups before the game start. Little things like that. I always have to knock on wood as well after making a claim about not having something bad happen, such as not having an accident in a while, not having got injured in some time, ect. I don't completely believe doing these things will have an effect, I just have to do it.

Little rituals like that aren't really dangerous, as long as you know intellectually that they don't really do anything.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, it doesn't. Being happy with who you are makes you healthy.

Uh... that's what spirituality is: the search for and experience of happiness. (Not the emotion; the state of mind.)

 

[Cobblestones]

Originally Posted by Cobblestones
Excellent points.

Hardly. He didn't describe spirituality or religion at all. He described superstition. THAT, I think we can all agree on, is one of the most mentally and intellectually unhealthy things to have.

I was crediting these comments:

Originally Posted by OmarKhayyam
Where did you get that absurd idea? For most of our history we have believed in all manner of "spirits" and demons and gods and things that go bump in the night. And we have died sooner and in greater numbers. Only in the last 500 yrs or so have both lost some of that "spirituality" and lived longer and healthier lives

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Being happy with who you are makes you healthy.

And riboflavin. Don't forget the riboflavin.

 

[Magic Man]

Uh... that's what spirituality is: the search for and experience of happiness. (Not the emotion; the state of mind.)

According to you. That's like saying "God is love". Well, then of course pretty much everyone believes in God. That's not my definition of God, though, and that's not my definition of spirituality. I dare say it's not most people's definition of spirituality. Otherwise anyone who was happy would be considered spiritual.

 

[linwood]

You see, you need to get out of your philosophical comfort zone, and actualy retrospect about this issue, there is not truth, so why not pick in a beliefs, that will give you life meaning, and that "might' be true, not like worshipping a banana, but something that a lot of people believe, or that your ancestors believe, or your own belief!

All the atheists I know have already done this.

The rest of your post is..even more naive.

 

[Riverwolf]

I was crediting these comments:

And I was referring to them, as well.

They are true, but they aren't describing spirituality.

 

[Riverwolf]

According to you. That's like saying "God is love". Well, then of course pretty much everyone believes in God. That's not my definition of God, though, and that's not my definition of spirituality. I dare say it's not most people's definition of spirituality. Otherwise anyone who was happy would be considered spiritual.

What's wrong with that?

Remember: not happiness the emotion. Though in hindsight, "content" may be a better word.

Let me take a moment to define "spirit," as it's sadly used interchangeably with "ghost," "soul," etc.

Spirit in this sense is actually more synonymous (though still different from) attitude and mood, and is usually influenced by environment and atmosphere. For example, the spirit of a teen party is full of energy, whereas the spirit of a funeral is meloncholy.

Therefore a "spiritual" person can be a person who is in perfect harmony with his true self. Such a person is therefore content.

The highest grade of spirituality is one who is perfectly content with what is. This doesn't necessarily mean he's in stagnation, as "what is" may be adventurous, in which case he will always be moving around and learning new things.

God is not always a requirement for such a mindset. (For some, a God may be; it depends on the person.)

If there are other definitions of spirituality, I'd be happy to hear them.

 

[Magic Man]

What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with what, considering anyone who's happy to be spiritual? The same problem I have with calling "love" "God". I'll just call it love, and I'll just consider that person happy, not spiritual.

Spirit in this sense is actually more synonymous (though still different from) attitude and mood, and is usually influenced by environment and atmosphere. For example, the spirit of a teen party is full of energy, whereas the spirit of a funeral is meloncholy.

Yes, that's one use of the word. That's why we have the expression "Get into the spirit of the holiday", for instance. However, I don't see how that has anything to do with "spiritual" in the sense we're talking about.

Therefore a "spiritual" person can be a person who is in perfect harmony with his true self. Such a person is therefore content.

Sure, it could be, but that doesn't exactly follow from what you just said. That's a bit of a stretch.

If there are other definitions of spirituality, I'd be happy to hear them.

I'm going with something more like:

"characterized by or suggesting predominance of the spirit; ethereal or delicately refined" from dictionary.com. I think this is close to what most people think of when they think of "spiritual", something having to do with one's spirit or soul. It's sort of like being in tune with nature or with the universe. It tends to bring a calm or contentment, I guess, but it's not a requirement for being happy.

 

[Riverwolf]

What's wrong with what, considering anyone who's happy to be spiritual? The same problem I have with calling "love" "God". I'll just call it love, and I'll just consider that person happy, not spiritual.

Use of the adjective "spiritual" indicates the cause of the happiness.

Yes, that's one use of the word. That's why we have the expression "Get into the spirit of the holiday", for instance. However, I don't see how that has anything to do with "spiritual" in the sense we're talking about.

I think it's the most accurate definition of "spirit" that we have.

Sure, it could be, but that doesn't exactly follow from what you just said. That's a bit of a stretch.

Not really. Someone who "gets into the spirit of the holiday" is one who acknowledges the holiday and doesn't wish it were not there, but fully embraces it and joins in the celebration. I call such a person "spiritual" in this sense.

I'm going with something more like:

"characterized by or suggesting predominance of the spirit; ethereal or delicately refined" from dictionary.com. I think this is close to what most people think of when they think of "spiritual", something having to do with one's spirit or soul. It's sort of like being in tune with nature or with the universe. It tends to bring a calm or contentment, I guess, but it's not a requirement for being happy.

Which is why I changed the word from "happy" to "content."

This definition can work to, but don't forget that modern English SUCKS! I try to speak much more precisely and not use words in ways that can be more accurately described by other words. (Not sure what "delicately refined" means here, though. Could you elaborate?) I think this definition could be better described by "soul" than "spirit." Then again, I don't know the etymology of either word, so...

 

[Magic Man]

Use of the adjective "spiritual" indicates the cause of the happiness.

And yet one can be happy without being spiritual.

I think it's the most accurate definition of "spirit" that we have.

In one way. Like most words, it has different meanings in different contexts. "Spirit" in "Get into the spirit of the holidays" is not the same "spirit" as in "He's very spiritual".

Not really. Someone who "gets into the spirit of the holiday" is one who acknowledges the holiday and doesn't wish it were not there, but fully embraces it and joins in the celebration. I call such a person "spiritual" in this sense.

And that's fine. That's just not the usual use of the word. You're welcome to use it that way, but it'll only cause you to explain yourself when talking with most people, since they won't understand that use of it.

Which is why I changed the word from "happy" to "content."

This definition can work to, but don't forget that modern English SUCKS! I try to speak much more precisely and not use words in ways that can be more accurately described by other words. (Not sure what "delicately refined" means here, though. Could you elaborate?) I think this definition could be better described by "soul" than "spirit." Then again, I don't know the etymology of either word, so...

This definition does work. That's why it's listed in the dictionary. I'm not sure what you mean by modern English sucking. I think it's fine. Speaking precisely would not include using "spiritual" to mean "happy". I take "delicately refined" to mean "calm, not harsh".

 

[Riverwolf]

And yet one can be happy without being spiritual.

Happy without ANY woes or regrets?

In one way. Like most words, it has different meanings in different contexts. "Spirit" in "Get into the spirit of the holidays" is not the same "spirit" as in "He's very spiritual".

Not really. There are differences, but they're not as big as that.

And that's fine. That's just not the usual use of the word. You're welcome to use it that way, but it'll only cause you to explain yourself when talking with most people, since they won't understand that use of it.

I'm more than happy to do so.

This definition does work. That's why it's listed in the dictionary. I'm not sure what you mean by modern English sucking. I think it's fine.

The language is not fine. It's full of words that have more or less become useless because of their being thrown around, words that mean two completely different things (such as the word "gay"), nouns are being used as verbs (such as "partner") simply because of laziness, and it's becoming accepted... I could go on forever about how much modern English sucks so much.

Speaking precisely would not include using "spiritual" to mean "happy". I take "delicately refined" to mean "calm, not harsh".

Like I said: spiritual is used to indicate the source. A person is happy because he is spiritual. Or because he is doing what he loves doing. Or because he has everything he wants.


My overall point is: God, or any sort of theism, is not necessary for spirituality.

 

[Smoke]

Many atheists are spiritual. Some Buddhists are atheists and still spiritual, for instance.

I looked up spiritual on dictionary.com and found nine definitions of the word when used as an adjective. That seems to be the problem. I suspect that when people talk about the value of "spirituality" they usually mean something I think is without value, or even harmful. But you can't assume they mean anything objective at all. Without further definition and discussion, it's pointless to talk about spirituality as if it were one particular phenomenon or set of phenomena.

However, in my experience, people usually seem to mean a certain kind of fuzzy-headedness and disconnection from observable reality, and I'm at a loss to know why that's such an admirable trait.

 

[Magic Man]

However, in my experience, people usually seem to mean a certain kind of fuzzy-headedness and disconnection from observable reality, and I'm at a loss to know why that's such an admirable trait.

Probably for the same reason that faith is so valued by so many.

 

[slave2six]

Happy without ANY woes or regrets?

Show me even one human being either spiritual or not who is without regrets...

 

[Riverwolf]

Show me even one human being either spiritual or not who is without regrets...

The Dalai Lama claimed to be at one point. He was asked if he was happy. He said yes. He paused for a moment, thinking, and said again, "Yes, I am."

The Buddha also claimed to have removed all regrets.

I, too, am working on discarding regret, as I believe it's a complete waste of time and energy.

Did they for sure? It would be foolish for someone else to say either way, as we don't know what's going on in their heads.