Atheism and arrogance

[PureX]

You're assuming a motive.

Yes, and that's not difficult to surmise. Nor is it unfair, since to interpret the language and behavior of others is to ascribe a motive to them. Didn't you just ascribe motive to me? Aren't you doing it again as you read these words? If you could see my face and body wouldn't you be interpreting my expressions and mannerisms for their intent (motive)?

In Islam it is generally prohibited to reveal one's sins or other people's sins for that matter.

And yet you feel quite free to declare homosexuals, "sinners".

See, I don't think the sin is in the activity, but rather in the selfishness and mean-spiritedness that inspires and rationalizes an activity. A homosexual is not a sinner simply because they engage in homosexuality. They are only sinners if they do so for the purpose of diminishing or harming others. A motive, by the way, that I see all too often being expressed among the "true believes" regarding homosexuals all around the world, and within various religious traditions.

 

[Polymath257]

That's not the same as Islam. Islam is not defined by Muslims, it is defined by God.

Well, actually, it is defined by the people who believe in God.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

I believe the latter is the correct view.

Qur'an 7:146 "Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them."

I see from your frubal list that @Amanaki has
joined the atheist bashing club. Really?
The premise of the question is that we're all
arrogant & the only question is why. Meh.
We aren't the one's claiming "The Truth"

 

[Piculet]

And yet you feel quite free to declare homosexuals, "sinners".

I don't declare them sinners, but someone committing a homosexual act would be sinning. That is permissable to say. It's actually required at times. We need to speak up against wrongdoing.

They are only sinners if they do so for the purpose of diminishing or harming others.

I'm speaking from the pov of the Abrahamic religions.

 

[PureX]

Almost makes me want to be an atheist....
Instead I just try to be a better believer.

I think what really matters is the character of the God we theists choose to trust in. Angry, spiteful, jealous, judgmental and violent humans tend to worship angry, spiteful, jealous, judgmental and violent gods. And as a result, they find both justification and expression for their own uglier inclinations through their religious beliefs and practices.

On the other hand, loving, forgiving, kind, generous, and peaceful humans tend to worship loving, forgiving, kind, generous and peaceful gods; and so find strength and hope in the face of all our animal shortcomings and can aspire to overcome them. God and religion were never our enemy, as so many atheists keep trying to assert. Our enemy is ourselves, and what we aspire to become through our god-concepts and our religious practices.

 

[Valjean]

If I believe "A" because there's abundant supporting evidence, that's not arrogance. Stating a clear, demonstrable fact is not arrogance.
If I believe "B" despite the fact that it has no supporting evidence, am I arrogant, or just foolish?
If I insist that B is correct, am I arrogant?
How about if I insist B is correct and criticize those who do not believe it; or even insist that others believe it?

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't declare them sinners, but someone committing a homosexual act would be sinning. That is permissable to say. It's actually required at times. We need to speak up against wrongdoing.

That is to declare them sinners.
But under Islam (& much of Christianity), more is done than mere
declaration....homos have been persecuted, imprisoned, & killed.
And why? Ancient books of myths. Talk about arrogance.
The ravings of long dead goatherds used to justify evil acts.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is to declare them sinners.
But under Islam (& much of Christianity), more is done than mere
declaration....homos have been persecuted, imprisoned, & killed.
And why? Ancient books of myths. Talk about arrogance.
The ravings of long dead goatherds used to justify evil acts.

And now I would like for you to give evidence of proof for the fact, that is evil acts.

 

[McBell]

In Islam it is generally prohibited to reveal one's sins or other people's sins for that matter.

I don't declare them sinners, but someone committing a homosexual act would be sinning. That is permissable to say. It's actually required at times. We need to speak up against wrongdoing.

I find this rather interesting

 

[Spirit of Light]

I see from your frubal list that @Amanaki has
joined the atheist bashing club. Really?
The premise of the question is that we're all
arrogant & the only question is why. Meh.
We aren't the one's claiming "The Truth"

Hey, am in a club I don't want to be in where is the unsubscribe paper I have to sign

 

[Revoltingest]

And now I would like for you to give evidence of proof for the fact, that is evil acts.

You need proof that persecuting & killing homosexuals is evil ?
There is none. You either share my ethical values or you don't.

 

[ChristineM]

Nope, never said that. Like I said – liars

Maybe you are not capable of understanding your own OP.

And to reply in such a fashion after writing such an OP says one thing, hypocrisy.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hey, am in a club I don't want to be in where is the unsubscribe paper I have to sign

Too late.
You joined by froobling the OP.

But there is a way out.
Send me $9.99 for more info.

 

[Piculet]

I find this rather interesting

Basics of Islam.

 

[Piculet]

That is to declare them sinners.

No. A homosexual does not have to commit homosexual acts.

But under Islam (& much of Christianity), more is done than mere
declaration....homos have been persecuted, imprisoned, & killed.

Actually all that has been done regardless of the belief system in the previous societies.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You need proof that persecuting & killing homosexuals is evil ?
There is none. You either share my ethical values or you don't.

Well, it is not that simple. We might even be able to agree on something despite not agree on how we arrive at what we share.

So in other words, in a limited sense we might share some few values, but it doesn't mean, that we share a world view or overall have the same ethical values.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Too late.
You joined by froobling the OP.

But there is a way out.
Send me $9.99 for more info.

Just because I froobed the OP does not mean I want to bash those who disagree with the OP
Yes I have my view of atheism and other topics from the OP.
But, I do respect that my view isn't the only true answer to the topic in discussion.
Honestly I can not change an atheist or a homsexual person, nor is that my goal. I once wanted that. But hey, that is none of my business.

And yes I get it, why people judge me when I speak. I have a tendency to stick my opinions in to things I should not.

I am just a human with many flaws

 

[McBell]

A break down of your OP

Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

A bold in your face declaration of a false dichotomy​

I believe the latter is the correct view.

A claim that you believe atheists do not believe because they are arrogant.​

Qur'an 7:146 "Those who behave arrogantly on the earth in defiance of right - them will I turn away from My signs: Even if they see all the signs, they will not believe in them; and if they see the way of right conduct, they will not adopt it as the way; but if they see the way of error, that is the way they will adopt. For they have rejected our signs, and failed to take warning from them."

It is God's law that evil-doers do not and cannot take any lesson from the otherwise instructive events which they observe. The arrogance mentioned here refers to man's delusion that he is on a higher plane than God's creatures and servants. It is this which prompts him to disregard God's command and to adopt an attitude which suggests that he neither considers himself God's servant, nor God his Lord. Such egotism has no basis in fact; it is sheer vanity. For as long as man live on God's earth, what can justify his living as a servant of anyone other than the Lord of the universe? It is for this reason that the Qur'an declares this arrogance to be 'without any right'.

Surah Al-A'raf 7:142-147 - Towards Understanding the Quran - Quran Translation Commentary - Tafheem ul Quran

I assume these were presented as "evidence" in support of your claim that atheists do not believe because they are arrogant.​

 

[Valjean]

I am just a human with many flaws

But you have this feline air about you, for some reason.....

 

[Revoltingest]

No. A homosexual does not have to commit homosexual acts.

That is a dubious distinction.
People have sex. It's what they're compelled to do
To deny the inexorable is bogus.
So you still condemn them for being who they are.

Actually all that has been done regardless of the belief system in the previous societies.

But no one kills homos better than believers filled with scriptural "truth".
Christians had the auto da fe & prison.
Muslims have lashing, beheading, & stoning.
These are good?