Atheism and arrogance

[Valjean]

arrogance: the belief that *I alone* know the truth and anyone who does not agree is of course an idiot.

In other words, fanatics are arrogant.

And atheists, who make no such truth claims, are not arrogant.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Discredit their texts?
Discredit their faith in their text of choice?
Point out that had they been born in a different place they'd have embraced a different religious text?
Point out that their faith is not a product of reason or evidence?

Well I think they have to be honest and do the research, so as to inform them that it is not simply a choice as to who we are attracted to. That might be a start at least.

 

[PureX]

But it's still there in the texts. What kind of change is going to alter that. Oh, they made a mistake so long ago.

And it's humans who make religions by the way.

That's my point. Religions are like art. They're just reflections of the societies that generate and interpret them. There's no point in blaming the art for the culture that generated it, yet a lot of people do. I don't know why. It's like they think the art makes us. Like blaming Hollywood for producing too many movies about sex, violence, and money.

It's foolish.

 

[pearl]

Oh look, another Atheist hating thread based on ignorance.

Some are Atheist because of the ignorance experienced in a religion.

 

[PureX]

{Valjean said: ↑
How are you defining arrogant? Atheists simply don't believe in a claim without evidence.}
Not following. How are you getting this out of a claim that atheists don't believe in things without evidence?

How are you NOT getting it???

How do ignorance, bigotry, ego, greed, and so on apply to atheists?
You probably don't believe in unicorns. You're an a-unicornist. Does that position make you ignorant, bigoted, egotistic or greedy?

I'm not so arrogant as to presume that I possess the capacity to determine the possibilities and limitations of what can and cannot exist. So I am able to recognize that unicorns do, indeed, "exist", but only in some ways, and not in others.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That's my point. Religions are like art. They're just reflections of the societies that generate and interpret them. There's no point in blaming the art for the culture that generated it, yet a lot of people do. I don't know why. It's like they think the art makes us. Like blaming Hollywood for producing too many movies about sex, violence, and money.

It's foolish.

Well I blame religions - for setting such things in stone and so as to be quite difficult to change - being God-ordained or whatever. I'd include things like circumcision, attitudes towards females, along with towards homosexuality which might have fared better had we not had such dogmatic adherence to religious teaching - and the texts from whence such came.

 

[sun rise]

Are you ignorant because you make blanket claims about atheists or do make blanket claims about atheists because you're ignorant. In either case, you're not doing Islam any favors with such drivel.

Yes. By attacking people here and labeling them arrogant because they don't believe, @Piculet , you are in fact hardening their attitudes and making it less likely to change their minds.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's just one issue.

And not even the one this thread is about.

He has taught me a good deal about Islam, although not much I didn't already know. He just reinforced my opinions about his religious world view.
Not just on this thread either.

I see him as a solid Muslim and well explains why most people find Islam immoral.

Tom

Or, as Christians largely were until God was made dead. Back when Christians did not ascribe to cultural relativist post-modernist interpretations to the Bible, back when kill them meant kill them, not ponder if it really means kill them in mind or spirit or someother vague metephoric idea of kill.

 

[ChristineM]

Some are Atheist because of the ignorance experienced in a religion.

Yes i am atheist because of the ignorance i experience i experienced from religion

 

[McBell]

Some are Atheist because of the ignorance experienced in a religion.

and even more are atheist becuase of their experience with religion.
And even more are atheist because of their experience with religionists...

 

[PureX]

Well I blame religions - for setting such things in stone and so as to be quite difficult to change - being God-ordained or whatever. I'd include things like circumcision, attitudes towards females, along with towards homosexuality which might have fared better had we not had such dogmatic adherence to religious teaching - and the texts from whence such came.

None of those things are "set in stone". We continue to engage in those ideals and practices because we WANT TO. Because they still MAKE SENSE TO US. (Or to most of us.) Eventually, when they no longer make sense to us, or we no longer see any benefit in them, we will let them go ... like those bronze monuments to long dead rich guys who lost wars they never should have fought to begin with.

We create these things because they mean something to us at the time. They "work" for us. And we keep them around as long as they keep "working". And when they no longer are relevant, or functional, we will leave them to fall into the dust of history. Religions are very much like those monuments, only more universal, and much more functional, in both their good and bad ways. But it's WE who give them life, and relevance. And it's WE who keep them around for as long as we do. Religions are just courses of thought and action that we humans engage in to help us becomes who we think we want or ought to be. And the gods are just idealized representations of those goals.

The way to deal with these things is to try and get people to see that they are choosing those god-images, and that they need to do so carefully. Because those god images are reflections of their own most sacred ideals. And of who they are working to become.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Some are Atheist because of the ignorance experienced in a religion.

Well, I'm not exactly and atheist, but yes, I agree. I've experienced a good deal of ignorance in a religion or two that affected my departure from theism.

 

[syo]

Are atheists arrogant because they don't believe or do they not believe because they are arrogant?

Who knows.

 

[Windwalker]

I have not seen anyone who truly believes in one God and worships Him, being arrogant.

Those who believe that their beliefs in God, and acts of worshipping God, makes them either immune to arrogance or beyond it, are most definitely arrogant. "I'm too good to be arrogant", is a statement of arrogance.

 

[Cooky]

Sounds like Left Coast got it right... it's a topic for discussion... calm down, you shouldn't take it personally.

We're allowed to say that Fundamentalism is un-enlightening, but we are not allowed to discuss atheist traits... Seems biased and unfair, especially in stating someone is "free to go" for exploring the idea.

...Ridiculously unfair, IMO.

 

[Cooky]

Those who believe that their beliefs in God, and acts of worshipping God, makes them either immune to arrogance or beyond it, are most definitely arrogant. "I'm too good to be arrogant", is a statement of arrogance.

Did someone claim that theists are immune to arrogance..? I don't recall seeing that here, or is it an assumption?

 

[SalixIncendium]

We're allowed to say that Fundamentalism is un-enlightening, but we are not allowed to discuss atheist traits... Seems biased and unfair, especially in stating someone is "free to go" for exploring the idea.

...Ridiculously unfair, IMO.

Where exactly are you getting your information?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Did someone claim that theists are immune to arrogance..? I don't recall seeing that here, or is it an assumption?

Are you twisting @Windwalker's words intentionally, or did you just misread or misunderstand what was written?

 

[ecco]

No one is "handing theists their reality". Theism is a choice, determined by experience, just as atheism or agnosticism is a choice, determined by experience.

I would disagree.

Very few children are raised as atheists. The reality of atheism isn't handed down.

Most children are raised to believe in a god. Their "reality" is handed down.

 

[sun rise]

And atheists, who make no such truth claims, are not arrogant.

I assume sarcasm because atheists do make absolutist claims about religion being evil (not all, to forgo the obvious retort) but some.