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Atheism and freethrought within the black community

Lester Freamon

mishy gishy gushy mushy
I notice that many blacks in America place religion very close to their hearts. It is rare you ever meet a black agnostic or atheist, and that really interests me. As a black man myself, I think a part of this is due to a few factors:

1. A giant part of the culture is likely branded from the slavery days when we blacks were unable to live normal lives in America; religion stood as the driving force for being able to live a brand new day. What's more, the Africans that were brought over via ship were likely highly spiritual and religious to begin with, so our acceptance of Christianity was probably natural - a part from the fact it was "spread" to us by the end of a gun barrel.

Likewise, even if you aren't Christian, it seems commonplace and acceptable to religious in SOME way within our community. Somehow, atheism is seen parallel to satanism.

2. Peer pressure. Many blacks in America are raised in the Christian church and for many, it's all we know. We are blind to it and accept it without question. I think that due to this, there are far more atheist/agnostics in the black community than many think, but either we are unwilling to accept it or not aware of non-faith as an option.

3. Our mothers. Black American society tends to be more matriarch in nature than patriarch, mostly due to the lack of fathers and split families during the slavery days. What's interesting is that, black females tend to be far more into the religion than the males. Most dudes I knew and still know don't really care about church or religion; they're quite neutral. But they still go to appease mommy, and continue to label themselves as Christians despite all signs pointing otherwise.

I went through this as I gravitated towards atheism, myself. When I told my mom once that I probably didn't believe Jesus was the son of God and that I don't fit under the Christian umbrella, she cried. She asked what she did wrong as a parent, and said she failed me. I didn't understand it, but if there's one thing I won't do is lie to myself because my family thinks I should be something I'm not. I think a lot of black men are in similar situations, because I know for sure a good amount would rather watch football than go to church.

What's more interesting is that I think religion (or to be more accurate, Christianity) is probably one of the major things that crafts black culture today; ranging from homophobia ("No Homo") to the ever long obsession with death and the after life rather than changing one's life for the better, these issues are big problems for me, personally.

Which brings me to my final question: if anyone here labels themselves as a black atheist, how did you personally arrive at this destination? What drove you to non-theism? Surely it wasn't an easy one? Mine was painful and yet relieving all the same.

I was born and raised in Texas, which is pretty damn religious. I think it was when I was in 6th grade English when I realized I didn't know whether or not God existed or not. In that class we studied Greek mythology, and quite honestly, as someone who was never able to grasp or understand the concept of "trinity" and "original sin" within the Christian faith, I thought that the stories in the Bible were just as fake as the ones in the Greek mythos we read in class, except not nearly as fun or interesting.

But I was in complete denial. Not only because it was how I was raised, but also because every black person I knew was religious, or at least carried the title. I've been convincing myself over the years that I think God exists, and it wasn't until recently I was willing to become honest with myself - I don't think God exists at all. What's funny is that, despite all of this, looking back on myself earlier in life, religion was never really relevant to me, but rather forced *upon* me. I'd rather play video games or play baseball or watch cartoons than go to church and I tried my damndest to not go week in, week out.

So why was it so damn hard for me to accept I didn't believe in God?

A part of me hoped and wished I did. It was a very superficial "relationship" and I feel many religious people feel the same way, they just, like me most of my life, are completely unwilling to admit this due to social pressure and fear of going to hell. You can't get saved if you don't play the Religion Lottery.

I couldn't really turn to anyone: my friends or my family. I don't want to break my family (mostly my mother's) heart, and I don't want to be alienated from my black friends more than I already am. I'm the guy who craps on the music my peers listen to on a regular basis because I find it degrading, for example. I guess I will always be a rebel?

I was been coping with this in a variety of ways. A few years ago I started reading up on the various faiths, convinced I was still religious or that I believed in God. I studied for about 2 years, and converted to Islam, thinking it would be the best place for my spiritual journey. I went to mosques and prayed 5 times a day, didn't eat pork and got drunk; the whole routine. And it all felt so...silly to me. I originally presumed that I was agnostic, but instead just assumed and HOPED that it was just the Christian religion. I think it's mostly because I was uncomfortable admitting this fact not only to my family but also to myself. Like realizing Santa Claus isn't who yours parents say he is.

But when I came to realize I didn't actually believe in God this past year, it finally came to be a sigh of relief and now I spend each morning excited for the new day, not because a mysterious space alien "gave" me the ability to wake up, but because life existing in the first place is a one in a billion occurrence, and I"m happy to be a part of it.

What do you all think? Has anyone had similar experiences? It doesn't matter if you're atheist or not.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Though I am a Christian and therefore disagree with many of your opinions about religion, I encourage you to continue to encourage free thought from your black brothers and sisters.

I see far too much of a "herd mentality" within the black community (generally speaking) and I would love to see more encouragement of independence in any form - especially from one "inside" that community (or at least seen as inside).

As one who is very familiar with black Texans in particular, and black southerners in general, I have always been quizzical about the religious fervor of a group with such high illigitimacy, crime, and addiction rates. It's sad, really.
 

Lester Freamon

mishy gishy gushy mushy
I agree. The same people who pimp on the weekdays are in church on Sundays. The same people who preach against gay marriage, lash out anytime someone uses the n-word. Such an illogical, hypocritical group.

As for my opinion on religion, because I am atheist does not mean I am militant or believe that religion is a plague. I think religion has its place, and find it incredibly fascinating. Religion is not bad, and religion is not beneath humanity. We simply have different opinions on how this ol' universe ticks is all.
 
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Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
True dat. Haven't see you around here before. Welcome to the forum!
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What do you all think? Has anyone had similar experiences? It doesn't matter if you're atheist or not.

I've been an atheist as long as I can remember. People tried to tell me about God early on, but I just didn't buy into the concept of some divine ruler.
Your experience is interesting, & I'm glad it turned out well for you. As I posted on your profile, that is one great moniker you chose. Lester, Prez,
Bunny, McNulty, Bubbles, Omar & all the gang are absolutely the best ever.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
Very interesting...I believe the first point you raised was perhaps the most significant. Religion was a survival mechanism during the slavery era; a concept of a good 'hereafter' that enabled people to get through the immediate suffering. But, like you said, it's prevailed through peer pressure and the demands of a society to conform to existing standards.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Religion is a major (arguably the main) source of group identity for many people. It seems to me that the effect is, if anything, more valued and more needed in groups that see their identity as sieged; the greater the perceived menace, the more effort spent in attempting to keep the tribe whole in thought and behavior. That is a well known social psychology fact.

I assume that African Americans, having faced so many obstacles to be recognized as full citizens (it was only in the 1960s that it happened, IIRC) have a significantly higher amount of identity issues deal with. In some ways it reminds me of many Brazilian communities, and not so much because we have a considerable percentage of blacks ourselves. Brazilians are a people plagued by heavy self-identity issues, and that makes us basically insufferable.
 

Smoke

Done here.
When I told my mom once that I probably didn't believe Jesus was the son of God and that I don't fit under the Christian umbrella, she cried. She asked what she did wrong as a parent, and said she failed me.
I went through all that with my mom over my being gay. When I quit being a Christian it didn't hit her as hard, because I was already bound for eternal damnation anyway, so what's the difference?

But when I came to realize I didn't actually believe in God this past year, it finally came to be a sigh of relief and now I spend each morning excited for the new day, not because a mysterious space alien "gave" me the ability to wake up, but because life existing in the first place is a one in a billion occurrence, and I"m happy to be a part of it.

What do you all think? Has anyone had similar experiences? It doesn't matter if you're atheist or not.
I loved the Church, and I'll probably never get over it completely, but there was still a sense of excitement and celebration when I realized I was an atheist. Being liberated from dogma is like being let out of a dungeon.
 

Reptillian

Hamburgler Extraordinaire
I figure its just statistics...I know these numbers aren't correct, but if black people make up one tenth of the population and atheists make up one tenth of the general population then isn't the probability that a random person is a black atheist one in a hundred?
 

Reptillian

Hamburgler Extraordinaire
If they were independent atributes, then yes, it would be so. Probably not the case, though.

They may not be entirely independent, but I think they're probably fairly independent...and independence would still be consistant with the smaller percentage of black atheists.
 

Smoke

Done here.
I figure its just statistics...I know these numbers aren't correct, but if black people make up one tenth of the population and atheists make up one tenth of the general population then isn't the probability that a random person is a black atheist one in a hundred?
No, it's even less. At least in the South. Southerners have a hard time being atheists, anyway. It goes against our whole culture to be an atheist, and that's true for black Southerners even more than white Southerners. I've only known a few black atheists in real life, and every single one of them lived up North.
 

Twig pentagram

High Priest
I notice that many blacks in America place religion very close to their hearts. It is rare you ever meet a black agnostic or atheist, and that really interests me. As a black man myself, I think a part of this is due to a few factors:

1. A giant part of the culture is likely branded from the slavery days when we blacks were unable to live normal lives in America; religion stood as the driving force for being able to live a brand new day. What's more, the Africans that were brought over via ship were likely highly spiritual and religious to begin with, so our acceptance of Christianity was probably natural - a part from the fact it was "spread" to us by the end of a gun barrel.

Likewise, even if you aren't Christian, it seems commonplace and acceptable to religious in SOME way within our community. Somehow, atheism is seen parallel to satanism.

2. Peer pressure. Many blacks in America are raised in the Christian church and for many, it's all we know. We are blind to it and accept it without question. I think that due to this, there are far more atheist/agnostics in the black community than many think, but either we are unwilling to accept it or not aware of non-faith as an option.

3. Our mothers. Black American society tends to be more matriarch in nature than patriarch, mostly due to the lack of fathers and split families during the slavery days. What's interesting is that, black females tend to be far more into the religion than the males. Most dudes I knew and still know don't really care about church or religion; they're quite neutral. But they still go to appease mommy, and continue to label themselves as Christians despite all signs pointing otherwise.

I went through this as I gravitated towards atheism, myself. When I told my mom once that I probably didn't believe Jesus was the son of God and that I don't fit under the Christian umbrella, she cried. She asked what she did wrong as a parent, and said she failed me. I didn't understand it, but if there's one thing I won't do is lie to myself because my family thinks I should be something I'm not. I think a lot of black men are in similar situations, because I know for sure a good amount would rather watch football than go to church.

What's more interesting is that I think religion (or to be more accurate, Christianity) is probably one of the major things that crafts black culture today; ranging from homophobia ("No Homo") to the ever long obsession with death and the after life rather than changing one's life for the better, these issues are big problems for me, personally.

Which brings me to my final question: if anyone here labels themselves as a black atheist, how did you personally arrive at this destination? What drove you to non-theism? Surely it wasn't an easy one? Mine was painful and yet relieving all the same.

I was born and raised in Texas, which is pretty damn religious. I think it was when I was in 6th grade English when I realized I didn't know whether or not God existed or not. In that class we studied Greek mythology, and quite honestly, as someone who was never able to grasp or understand the concept of "trinity" and "original sin" within the Christian faith, I thought that the stories in the Bible were just as fake as the ones in the Greek mythos we read in class, except not nearly as fun or interesting.

But I was in complete denial. Not only because it was how I was raised, but also because every black person I knew was religious, or at least carried the title. I've been convincing myself over the years that I think God exists, and it wasn't until recently I was willing to become honest with myself - I don't think God exists at all. What's funny is that, despite all of this, looking back on myself earlier in life, religion was never really relevant to me, but rather forced *upon* me. I'd rather play video games or play baseball or watch cartoons than go to church and I tried my damndest to not go week in, week out.

So why was it so damn hard for me to accept I didn't believe in God?

A part of me hoped and wished I did. It was a very superficial "relationship" and I feel many religious people feel the same way, they just, like me most of my life, are completely unwilling to admit this due to social pressure and fear of going to hell. You can't get saved if you don't play the Religion Lottery.

I couldn't really turn to anyone: my friends or my family. I don't want to break my family (mostly my mother's) heart, and I don't want to be alienated from my black friends more than I already am. I'm the guy who craps on the music my peers listen to on a regular basis because I find it degrading, for example. I guess I will always be a rebel?

I was been coping with this in a variety of ways. A few years ago I started reading up on the various faiths, convinced I was still religious or that I believed in God. I studied for about 2 years, and converted to Islam, thinking it would be the best place for my spiritual journey. I went to mosques and prayed 5 times a day, didn't eat pork and got drunk; the whole routine. And it all felt so...silly to me. I originally presumed that I was agnostic, but instead just assumed and HOPED that it was just the Christian religion. I think it's mostly because I was uncomfortable admitting this fact not only to my family but also to myself. Like realizing Santa Claus isn't who yours parents say he is.

But when I came to realize I didn't actually believe in God this past year, it finally came to be a sigh of relief and now I spend each morning excited for the new day, not because a mysterious space alien "gave" me the ability to wake up, but because life existing in the first place is a one in a billion occurrence, and I"m happy to be a part of it.

What do you all think? Has anyone had similar experiences? It doesn't matter if you're atheist or not.
I'm of African descent and I've had a similar journey through religion, but instead of ending up atheist I ended up pantheist.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
It might interest some of you to know that the current High Priestess of the Temple of Set, the only Left-Hand Path, Satanic, Black Magic religious institution fully recognized by the United States government, is a black woman. Hail, Magistra Patty Hardy IV*, High Priestess of the Temple of Set! Hail, Set - the Supreme Manifestation of the Lord of Darkness!

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
I think there are a lot of factors.

I think Elijah Muhammed was on to something by pointing out that Christianity was an essential part of the slave mentality that was used to keep African-Americans enslaved.

Another factor is that the more miserable and poor people are, the more religious they are likely to be. African-Americans are on average poorer and live in worse circumstances than white Americans, so are more likely to be religious.

Similarly, higher education levels correlate with reduced religiosity, and on average etc. as above.

Finally, it cannot be denied that at the same time the church has served as a center and foundation of African American community, including the civil rights movement, and this also plays a sizable role.

Are you familiar with Infidel Guy?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Greetings, nice to meet you. I am not African-American but, as we white people like to say, some of my best friends are. Also my 3 kids. It is an interesting question. I think the biggest contributor is historical, especially involving the positive role of the A.A. church for 300 years in America.

However, I always like to look at demographic factors as well. Statistically, people who are better educated and male are more likely to be atheist. There is a relatively smaller portion of A.A's who are better educated and male. The American most likely to be Christian is an older, female, not college-educated, rural, African-American. You may be related to some!

Hope you are familiar with the Infidel Guy.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
Interesting view, I would like to find some studies on Blacks and atheism now.

My trip to atheism is very similar but my family was not an issue.

In my opinion there are 2 drivers for the faith/reason divide more education usually leads to more reason/less faith. Hardships tend to drive people toward more faith/less reason. From this I can see why many minority groups are mostly religious.

In my opinion this is generally true of the average person.
 
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