Atheism and the Big Bang

[whirlingmerc]

Everybody can speak like that.

God stretched out the heavens in the beginning in some remarkable way
I can agree on that

maybe not the big bang tho...

the big bang works .. until it doesn't.... there you have it?
or do you

Monopole oh where for art thou?
Flatness?
Horizon problem?
clumpy universe?
oh dark matter therefor art thou
EcParadic theory??? 11 dimensions ... I sense a Marvel superhero show on that one

 

[columbus]

I don't believe Hoyle ever did.

Perhaps not, he was pretty attached to steady state. Wasn't it him who coined the phrase Big Bang, as a derogatory?
But this is also an illustration of another way that Science is superior to Religion. It doesn't rely on human authority. It doesn't matter how famous or respected a human authority figure might be. The preponderance of data will eventually drive the consensus, because that's the objective standard.

As opposed to Religion, with no such objective standard. People will argue and fight for centuries over what is really just a batch of opinions.
Tom

 

[ecco]

Ironically atheism and humanism were classified as religions and rightly so since they have many faith principles. Then toward the second half of the 20th century they started making themselves a not a religion.... but really... they are

Where, when, by whom?

The first humanist manifesto written by atheists and humanists.

see WikI
"The first manifesto, entitled simply A Humanist Manifesto, was written in 1933 primarily by Roy Wood Sellarsand Raymond Bragg and was published with 34 signatories including philosopher John Dewey. Unlike the later ones, the first Manifesto talked of a new "religion", and referred to Humanism as a religious movement to transcend and replace previous religions that were based on allegations of supernatural revelation..."

but as you can see they remarked themselves in later manifestos as not a religion at all

You stated atheism was classified as a religion. A book about humanism is not a "classification"? In any case please show where atheism is equated to a religion in your own Wiki Link.

• Dictionaries define religion as: the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power. Atheists neither believe in nor worship superhuman controlling powers.
• The IRS does not classify atheism as a religion.
• Religious people regularly kneel down or bow down or prostrate themselves and: ask their deity to forgive their sins; ask their deity to answer their prayers; tell their deity how great he is. Atheists do none of these things.

Why do you feel it necessary to try to drag atheists down to your level of irrationality?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Well thank you for the kind words

One one level "... yes, the Supreme Court has recognized that in a special sense, atheism is equivalent to religion in regards to the First Amendment and religious protections...."

One another yes, atheism is a religious world view as it speaks to the issue of one's understanding of God

Court rules atheism a religion
A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

“Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.


Read more at Court rules atheism a religion

and the article continues to point out ...
The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion


Read more at Court rules atheism a religion

 

[ecco]

Perhaps not, he was pretty attached to steady state. Wasn't it him who coined the phrase Big Bang, as a derogatory?

Yep.

I don't think Einstein ever really accepted quantum entanglement either.

 

[gnostic]

I don't believe Hoyle ever did.

In his career as a scientist, Hoyle only got one thing right, and that is Stellar Nucleosynthesis.

His cosmology (Steady State Model) was debunked.

He is not a biologist, so anything he had to say is just his opinion.

As an astronomer, I would rate him as average, and I would ignore his commentaries on other fields of science. Other than the Stellar Nucleosynthesis, he hasn’t done much in term of astronomy.

 

[ecco]

One one level "... yes, the Supreme Court has recognized that in a special sense, atheism is equivalent to religion in regards to the First Amendment and religious protections...."

Note the bolded words you yourself quoted.

You do not understand your own writing. If you did you would not have posted that as supporting your contention that atheism is a religion.

Again, why do you feel it necessary to try to drag atheists down to your level of irrationality?

 

[ChristineM]

Yep.

I don't think Einstein ever really accepted quantum entanglement either.

He didn't, he described it as derided entanglement as spooky action at a distance.

 

[columbus]

One one level "... yes, the Supreme Court has recognized that in a special sense, atheism is equivalent to religion in regards to the First Amendment and religious protections...."

One another yes, atheism is a religious world view as it speaks to the issue of one's understanding of God

In the same sense, bald could be classified as a hair color.
If somebody, like the government, decided to survey the population about hair color a reasonable list might be:
Black
Brunette
Red
Blond
Grey
Bald

Would that make bald a hair color, in your opinion?

Suppose that person or government gave special treatment based on hair color. Say it was a tax deduction for hair products and treatment. Might bald people feel inclined to want equal treatment, a tax deduction for their razors or Rogaine or something? Yes, of course they would.

However, none of this makes bald a hair color under any other circumstances. At least not to reasonable people.
Tom

 

[Rational Agnostic]

HF:

The Bible predicts precisely how atheists will respond to the OP, and how born again believers will respond. Respectfully, I did not read any other posts on this thread but yours. See how the Bible tells us the truth!

LOL. Because I posted a thread arguing in favor of some deistic god concept, you now think that I'm a bible-believer? Hate to burst your bubble, but that's definitely not the case.

 

[gnostic]

Well thank you for the kind words

One one level "... yes, the Supreme Court has recognized that in a special sense, atheism is equivalent to religion in regards to the First Amendment and religious protections...."

One another yes, atheism is a religious world view as it speaks to the issue of one's understanding of God

Court rules atheism a religion
A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

“Atheism is [the inmate’s] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.


Read more at Court rules atheism a religion

and the article continues to point out ...
The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion


Read more at Court rules atheism a religion

Atheism is related to the question of theism, but it isn’t a religion.

To understand atheism, you would have to understand the definitions of what theism and religion are.

Theism by definition is a belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

Here is the definition from Oxford dictionary:

belief in the existence of god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe: there are many forms of theism. Compare with deism.

Religion is about believing, following and worshipping deity or deities:

the belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal god or gods: ideas about the relationship between science and religion.

[count noun] a particular system of faith and worship: the world’s great religions.

The definition definitions are in bold, the rest of the text after the colon “:” are just examples of usage of the dictionary terms.

The key word in religion, apart from “belief” and “faith”, is “WORSHIP”.

Atheism deals with the question about theism, thus they don’t believe in a god or gods.

But atheism isn’t a religion, because atheists DON’T WORSHIP any deity.

I don’t really care what your Supreme Court say, because atheism don’t worship any god that they don’t believe in.

You are not using your common sense, whirlingmerc.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Atheism is related to the question of theism, but it isn’t a religion.

To understand atheism, you would have to understand the definitions of what theism and religion are.

Theism by definition is a belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

Here is the definition from Oxford dictionary:

​

Religion is about believing, following and worshipping deity or deities:

​

The definition definitions are in bold, the rest of the text after the colon “:” are just examples of usage of the dictionary terms.

The key word in religion, apart from “belief” and “faith”, is “WORSHIP”.

Atheism deals with the question about theism, thus they don’t believe in a god or gods.

But atheism isn’t a religion, because atheists DON’T WORSHIP any deity.

I don’t really care what your Supreme Court say, because atheism don’t worship any god that they don’t believe in.

You are not using your common sense, whirlingmerc.

Buddism is a religion and doesn't believe in a God

The Supreme court trips the Oxford dictionary

 

[whirlingmerc]

Buddism is a religion and doesn't believe in a God

The Supreme court trips the Oxford dictionary

The religion forms here have a category for atheists under religion...
case closed

 

[columbus]

The religion forms here have a category for atheists under religion...
case closed

Atheism and the Big Bang


Get it?
Tom

 

[ecco]

Buddism is a religion and doesn't believe in a God

Do Buddhists have a deity?

In that context, “Yes” is the best answer. However, even though most of the world'sBuddhists recite the name of Buddha or pray to Buddha, Buddha is not a deity or supreme being in the same way that the Christian God is. ... For Buddhists, what and how you practice is more fundamental than what you believe.
​

If you kneel down to it and pray to it, it's a god. If you believe that doing so leads to reincarnation and/or everlasting life, it's a god.

That may not be the same as your concept of a god.

And then there are these guys:

In Buddhism, fierce deities are the fierce, wrathful or forceful (Tibetan: trowo, Sanskrit: krodha) forms of enlightened Buddhas, Bodhisattvas or Devas (divine beings). Because of their power to destroy the obstacles to enlightenment, they are also termed krodha-vighnantaka, "fierce destroyers of obstacles".

​

The biggest difference between religious people and atheists is that atheists do not hold beliefs in anything supernatural - no gods, no heavens, no reincarnation.

 

[ecco]

The religion forms here have a category for atheists under religion...
case closed

Oh goody. Now we are going to use forum categories as the definitive source for truth.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Oh goody. Now we are going to use forum categories as the definitive source for truth.

It reflects a usage of the word

 

[BilliardsBall]

There are born again believers who accept the Big Bang as an accurate description of our universe's history. In fact, it was a born again believer that came up with the Big Bang theory to begin with.

I understand how the BB ties to what looks like a careful reading of Genesis, sure.

I also see how the universality of BB theory being accepted among cosmologists belies the fact that magical thinking is required to explain how this universe came to be--magical thinking that is akin to mysticism, positing a multiverse for which there is no proof.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The OP is a very long post.

Please show where the bible predicts how atheists will respond to all the comments in the OP.

Numerous verses describe the attitudes, verbals and responses of the righteous and unrighteous, dozens of such verses in Proverbs alone. Mockers . . . mock.

 

[BilliardsBall]

LOL. Because I posted a thread arguing in favor of some deistic god concept, you now think that I'm a bible-believer? Hate to burst your bubble, but that's definitely not the case.

I DON'T think that, but one simply must learn to crawl before one walks, runs!