Atheism, Autism and Narcissism

[CynthiaCypher]

France has what proportion of medically certifiable narcissists in your view?

I certainly hope you are joking.

Narcissism is not medically certifiable condition.

 

[kashmir]

So Atheist's are mentally impaired? Um ok. I hope you are backing this up with some sort of credibility because this is really pushing it.

No offense, but many atheists, including ones with several degree's such as Dawkins, claims that religious people are all delusional.
Not a shred of scientific evidence to even support that billions of people atheists do not know are all delusional.

The same is said for people who claim to have seen UFO's, bigfoot, etc.

Basically, it's an empty title to explain the unknown to them.

As for the atheism and narcissist thing, go on any atheist run board, YT, and even respectable debates.
Atheists seem to have a narcissist air about them.
Specially dawkins, when he gives his hate speeches, he seems to be so happy and enjoying the hate he is creating.
So yah, the evidence speaks for itself.

Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Four dimensions of narcissism as a personality variable have been delineated: leadership/authority, superiority/arrogance, self-absorption/self-admiration, and exploitativeness/entitlement.

 

[Daviso452]

I don't know. I have been visiting a forum for people on the spectrum and they seem to be about 50/50 when it comes to religion. I don't know if that is because of socialization or being encultured but they do not seem to be overwhelmingly atheistic. The people on the spectrum do have rather concrete ideas about God rather than abstract ideas though.

Sometimes you need to think about your Audience. Does it represent the majority? In what way are the representative?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Sometimes you need to think about your Audience. Does it represent the majority? In what way are the representative?

Well I wasn't conducting a scientific survey but I did go on one of the more popular forums for people on the spectrum and ask what they thought about spiritually and religion and there seemed to a 50/50 split between believers on the spectrum and atheists/agnostics on the spectrum.

 

[crossfire]

A lightbulb that never gets switched on never burns out, either.

It not be able to get switched on because there is no electricity in the house in the first place.

Ahh, first you say it is wiring, now you say there's no electricity. Which is it?

Are we talking figuratively on purpose now?

Yes.

They don't have to worry about losing their faith--so don't have to go through the contortions we see some people go through in order to protect it. There's a certain freedom connected with that.

 

[Sha'irullah]

You mean you want me to back this up with like real science...umm ok.

The issue though is that many societies like China are non-narcissistic and is apart of their values yet they are a highly atheistic country because of Communism. On top of that you have the Scandinavian countries where religions is dying very quickly along with Europe in general.

Did you know that most people are born religious and become atheists later on in life as well?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Some scientist and researchers have made a connection between atheism and some forms of autism. A religious belief is thought to be neuro-typical, our natural, normal and healthy mental functions induce these sort of beliefs for our own benefit. Except for the atheist, their brain do not function normally, many do not understand figurative language (which is needed to develop a healthy spirituality), feel a deep inner connection to others or the outside or feel that much empathy, all indications of autism. According to some scientists whom I have read people on the autistic spectrum are more likely to be atheistic.

And known what you are about to read next might sound like an unethical experiment, well because it is. At times I have figurative language purposely when in discussions with certain atheists and often times they were unable to decode what I was saying. In fact I would do this several times with the same atheists and the results would often be the same, they would either take what I said literally or they seemed to be confused at what I was trying to convey figuratively. So I do believe that some atheists might indeed have some form of autism.

But also, the inability to connect or empathize with others might mean something else in the atheists besides autism. Autistic people might find it hard to form deep connections or empathize with others but they also have a deep seated need to do so. So this leaves me with another option: Maybe autistic people are not prone to atheism, maybe it is people who are merely narcissistic who are prone to atheism. I can see how the two could get confused. Narcissists are like Jehovah, they see themselves as the center of the universe and there can be no other Gods before them. In fact I think narcissism might be more conducive towards the creation of an atheist than I could see autism doing so.

Your thoughts.

This is a poor inference on your part.

"Ferraris are likely to be red" does not imply "red cars are likely to be Ferraris".
"Autistic people are likely to be atheists" does not imply "atheists are likely to be autistic."

 

[Daviso452]

As for the atheism and narcissist thing, go on any atheist run board, YT, and even respectable debates.
Atheists seem to have a narcissist air about them.
Specially dawkins, when he gives his hate speeches, he seems to be so happy and enjoying the hate he is creating.
So yah, the evidence speaks for itself.
Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, Dawkins can be rude at times. Of course you should consider the life he's had; he originally wanted to avoid the atheistic scene because of the people he'd have to face. Then he entered the scene. He's probably come across a horde of atrocious people who hate him.

If enough people begin to hate you it becomes rather hard not to hate them back. Sure, a perfect man wouldn't let it affect him, but it's not fair to put that kind of responsibility on a man.

A lot of atheists you see go on air might have that "air of narcissism" also because of all the stupid stuff they are told. When you get that famous, and about a hot-button topic, You're going to be introduced to a lot of extremely stupid people. Definitely smart people as well, but also a lot of dumb people who go "if I'm a monkey, why don't I throw poo?" Personally when I'm surrounded by morons my ego boosts a little bit. Just a by-product of the field is all.

Theistic spokesman generally won't receive as much of that. Most atheists aren't so passionate that they'd tell a priest "You're what's making our nation a bunch of stupid idiots!". I mean I know they do to an extent, but their just aren't as many atheists who would do that compared to people who are passionate about their faith.

It's just the crowds that people are exposed to. You can't really blame famous atheists for having a bigger ego than most when they get exposed to more idiots* than most.


*By "idiots" I'm referring to the extreme examples, not theistic people in general.

 

[DreadFish]

Narcissism is not medically certifiable condition.

Narcissism is a medically certifiable condition:

Narcissistic personality disorder Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

Simply being kinda narcissistic is not a condition, but when narcissistic traits develop to the point of impairing healthy functioning, then it is a certifiable disorder.

 

[Sha'irullah]

No offense, but many atheists, including ones with several degree's such as Dawkins, claims that religious people are all delusional.
Not a shred of scientific evidence to even support that billions of people atheists do not know are all delusional.

The same is said for people who claim to have seen UFO's, bigfoot, etc.

Basically, it's an empty title to explain the unknown to them.

As for the atheism and narcissist thing, go on any atheist run board, YT, and even respectable debates.
Atheists seem to have a narcissist air about them.
Specially dawkins, when he gives his hate speeches, he seems to be so happy and enjoying the hate he is creating.
So yah, the evidence speaks for itself.

Narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh I am very familar with everything you say and to be honest I am agnostic about this whole issue as I have been on an Atheist forum for quite some time now. I will not deny the trolling and lying which is rampant amongst atheists.
The issue of Atheists being atheistic because of mental disorders is my issue.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Narcissism is a medically certifiable condition:

Narcissistic personality disorder Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

Simply being kinda narcissistic is not a condition, but when narcissistic traits develop to the point of impairing healthy functioning, then it is a certifiable disorder.

It is no longer in the DSM. So it is no longer consider a disorder. But I view it as a social and cultural condition involving extreme individualism and entitlement as defining traits.

 

[DreadFish]

As far as any narcissism among atheists, the louder atheists do tend to appear narcissistic in the way that they assert that theists and religious people are wrong. Not all atheists do this, of course, but there are those who become atheist and use their sense of "rationality" and "logic" as a means of making them feel/appear superior to the religious people. Most of the time, these people are not really that reasonable or rational at all and are simple finding confidence in something that they feel can be more easily proven to themselves and others.

This, I think, is not narcissism, but other things like insecurity and repressed antagonism towards religion and religious people because of having felt oppressed by it before they freed themselves of it through reason and rationality. It's not a coincidence that people like this tend to associate all religion with the ideas of Christianity or Islam. I think these people would not behave in a narcissistic manner in their everyday lives.

So, I see no connection with narcissism and atheism, only that some people, who are atheist, assert this fact with arrogance and a sense of superiority based on their own personal problems. This exact same thing happens with some people who follow a certain religion. The correlation does not imply a causation.

 

[kashmir]

Yeah, Dawkins can be rude at times. Of course you should consider the life he's had; he originally wanted to avoid the atheistic scene because of the people he'd have to face. Then he entered the scene. He's probably come across a horde of atrocious people who hate him.

If enough people begin to hate you it becomes rather hard not to hate them back. Sure, a perfect man wouldn't let it affect him, but it's not fair to put that kind of responsibility on a man.

A lot of atheists you see go on air might have that "air of narcissism" also because of all the stupid stuff they are told. When you get that famous, and about a hot-button topic, You're going to be introduced to a lot of extremely stupid people. Definitely smart people as well, but also a lot of dumb people who go "if I'm a monkey, why don't I throw poo?" Personally when I'm surrounded by morons my ego boosts a little bit. Just a by-product of the field is all.

Theistic spokesman generally won't receive as much of that. Most atheists aren't so passionate that they'd tell a priest "You're what's making our nation a bunch of stupid idiots!". I mean I know they do to an extent, but their just aren't as many atheists who would do that compared to people who are passionate about their faith.

It's just the crowds that people are exposed to. You can't really blame famous atheists for having a bigger ego than most when they get exposed to more idiots* than most.


*By "idiots" I'm referring to the extreme examples, not theistic people in general.

Please, dawkins caused all the hate to be brought upon himself, he wrote those books for the shock factor and the drama it created.
He is just as much an idiot and hypocrite as the very people he is hating on.
He is far from being a victim.
He is the aggressor.

As for religious = idiot, I hope that is not what you are saying.

 

[DreadFish]

It is no longer in the DSM. So it is no longer consider a disorder. But I view it as a social and cultural condition involving extreme individualism and entitlement as defining traits.

PsychCentral says otherwise:

DSM-5 Changes: Personality Disorders (Axis II) | Psych Central Professional

DSM5.org says that it is included in section III of the DSM V:

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Personality Disorders Fact Sheet.pdf

Anyway, the ICD-10, by the WHO, still includes it too.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

PsychCentral says otherwise:

DSM-5 Changes: Personality Disorders (Axis II) | Psych Central Professional

DSM5.org says that it is included in section III of the DSM V:

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Personality Disorders Fact Sheet.pdf

Anyway, the ICD-10, by the WHO, still includes it too.

Damn that Wikipedia. It confused me again.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am not saying all atheists are narcissist or autistic but those things inform some atheists. I am saying that maybe some of them can't be anything other than atheist because the way they are wired.

So... when considering two groups of people:

Group 1: made up of people who believe that a being who generally agrees with them on all important issues is perfect, and believes that their existence was a significant factor in the reasons for why the universe was created.

Group 2: made up of people who reject Group 1's position.

... you think that Group 2 are the narcissists? :areyoucra

Bizarre.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

So... when considering two groups of people:

Group 1: made up of people who believe that a being who generally agrees with them on all important issues is perfect, and believes that their existence was a significant factor in the reasons for why the universe was created.

Group 2: made up of people who reject Group 1's position.

... you think that Group 2 are the narcissists? :areyoucra

Bizarre.

Nowhere did I state any sort of belief like that.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

As far as any narcissism among atheists, the louder atheists do tend to appear narcissistic in the way that they assert that theists and religious people are wrong. Not all atheists do this, of course, but there are those who become atheist and use their sense of "rationality" and "logic" as a means of making them feel/appear superior to the religious people. Most of the time, these people are not really that reasonable or rational at all and are simple finding confidence in something that they feel can be more easily proven to themselves and others.

This, I think, is not narcissism, but other things like insecurity and repressed antagonism towards religion and religious people because of having felt oppressed by it before they freed themselves of it through reason and rationality. It's not a coincidence that people like this tend to associate all religion with the ideas of Christianity or Islam. I think these people would not behave in a narcissistic manner in their everyday lives.

So, I see no connection with narcissism and atheism, only that some people, who are atheist, assert this fact with arrogance and a sense of superiority based on their own personal problems. This exact same thing happens with some people who follow a certain religion. The correlation does not imply a causation.

Well narcissism is not a secure state of mind to begin with. In fact I think it betrays a sense of insecurity. Now is it possible that some people are atheist because of a sense of insecurity?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nowhere did I state any sort of belief like that.

Sure you didn't.

 

[kashmir]

Sure you didn't.

instead of setting up the strawman, how about address what I said? :sarcastic
My first post.