Atheism is a RELIGION

[URAVIP2ME]

Any age, including children and innocent babies.
So god made everyone bad except noah and his immediate family so he murdered every person, animal and plant (except noah and co) to cover his error? Note that included all the pregnant woman and their unborn child.

We can Not read hearts, so we do Not know when a person is beyond repenting, beyond reform but God can know.
Those parents were having their children grow up violent just like themselves. They would Not stay innocent.
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14.
God did Not make everyone bad, but the people themselves filled themselves with violence as per Genesis 6:11.
To save any righteous people is why God had Noah build the Ark.
There is a difference between murder and a divine execution for the sake of justice for the righteous ones.
Even imperfect humans can see there is a difference between killing, murder and an execution.

 

[ChristineM]

And when the Hebrews did Not obey then we find they often went astray being a still-necked people.
They were in Babylonian exile for 70 year because of their unfaithfulness.
Yes, there was internal strife in Israel as per Judges chapters 17 to 21.
The land was polluted with idols, idol worship and sex crimes (chapter 19)
There was war committed against those Benjaminites (chapter 20) but there were saved ones as per chapter 21.
The women and children of Numbers 31:18 were Not killed - Deuteronomy chapters 20-21.
The Philistines were enemies - 2 Samuel 8th chapter.
Exodus chapter 21:12-27 is about violence done to a fellow man (violence on animals - Exodus 21:28-36)
In ancient of Israel there was the ' avenger of blood ' (Numbers 35:19-21,31) - Please see Leviticus 24:17-22.

You have provided justification for any of my points, just apologetics

EX 21:20-21 says that with the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly

2 Samuel 8:13 says David slew 18,000 Edomites and made the rest slaves.

Numbers 31:9 states that following the Lord's command, Moses orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and every woman who has known man. How it was determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.

Judges 21:10-12 says Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." Again, how did they know? Did god god "kill her, bit not that one because she is a virgin?" Or was it determined by physical examination?

However it was determined they sofind four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use... I.e. sex slavery

 

[ChristineM]

We can Not read hearts, so we do Not know when a person is beyond repenting, beyond reform but God can know.
Those parents were having their children grow up violent just like themselves. They would Not stay innocent.
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14.
God did Not make everyone bad, but the people themselves filled themselves with violence as per Genesis 6:11.
To save any righteous people is why God had Noah build the Ark.
There is a difference between murder and a divine execution for the sake of justice for the righteous ones.
Even imperfect humans can see there is a difference between killing, murder and an execution.

Babies?
Seems you do not know, or want to know the history or egypt.

According to the bible your omni everything god made the template for those people, why not just admit he got it wrong rather than earning the name of the worlds first genocidal maniac?

What difference.. your god did it so its ok.. hitler did it (in the name of your god) so its not ok.

Murder is murder in my book, you can make any excuses you want but they are ultimately just excuses

 

[BilliardsBall]

Google is your friend. The fact that you, personally, refuse to look at the debunking process? Isn't my problem, is it?

I'd be happy to school you here-- but not for free. Unless you've been living in a cave, it's been around for decades, that the "bible prophecies" are inadequate.



Nonsensical gibberish.


It's like you've never lifted your head above the sand....

These are prophecies of the OT, not "gibberish":

It's been debunked that the Jews in the diaspora would bless the nations they stayed in, be persecuted there, then return home to Israel, to win the nation in a day, revive Hebrew, plant cities without walls, and make the desert bloom with agricultural richness?

Here are over 60 literal, specific prophecies filled by Israel since 1948: 10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948

You may have the last word here. Try to make it factual rather than (again, how shocking!) rhetoric.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

* What ever a person puts first in one's life is their ' god or God'.

Wrong.

Gods -- and the worship thereof? Requires slave behavior. This is why the New Testament is chock-full of "master" and "slave" language.

Some people refuse to be slaves, and therefore? Have no gods of any stripe, metaphorical or otherwise.

I know this is difficult for goddites to comprehend, but it's true.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

These are prophecies of the OT, not "gibberish":.

All debunked quite completely. Sorry about that chief.

Had they *not* been so completely debunked? There would only be the one religion.

That's how Evidence works, after all.

But, there are in excess of 45,000 different brands of 'Genuine Christian' alone, at last count-- and the number is rising...

... the exact opposite of what would happen if these "prophecies" had not been debunked.

It's been debunked that the Jews in the diaspora would bless the nations they stayed in, be persecuted there, then return home to Israel, to win the nation in a day, revive Hebrew, plant cities without walls, and make the desert bloom with agricultural richness?.

Yes. Just for starters, the Jews were never in Egypt. So the root of your story is false.

If you begin with a false narrative? Nothing that comes after can be accurate.

Here are over 60 literal, specific prophecies filled by Israel since 1948: 10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948
.

Bogus. See above.

You may have the last word here. Try to make it factual rather than (again, how shocking!) rhetoric.

Ironic. Seeing as how you linked to non-factual websites... don't you think?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

* What ever a person puts first in one's life is their ' god or God'.

I don't think so. I don't think anybody actually puts anything truly first, as our desires, motives and perspective shift from moment to moment.

* Example of Christ-like love is Not love in general but to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor ' more ' than self.

Unmitigated altruism is very likely a great way to bring a species to extinction. After all, how many kids di Jesus have?

That self-sacrificing love means telling others about the ' good news of God's kingdom ' as Jesus taught at Matthew 24:14. I know of No atheist or agnostic who goes about telling others about Acts of the Apostles 1:8.

That would be unthinkably unloving of me to do, because you see I do not believe in it. How self-sacrificing and loving is it to spread what you truly consider to be falsehoods?

* It's 'Christendom' ( the so-called Christian ) who burns down places of worship. Jesus never taught that.

No, I don't think so. Places of worship have been desecrated by all sorts of people, of different faiths and of none. But the truth of it is, when a Christian, or a Muslim, or anyone else does something like that in the name of their belief, then they have misunderstood the belief. I lay that at the foot of the one responsible for that belief.

How many people, innocent people, have died throughout human history because someone had a belief that they thought others ought to share, whether they wanted to or not?

* As to what must the atheist keep in mind is Not found in Scripture, what is found in Scripture is Micah 6:8.
We are to exercise justice, to cherish loyalty, and to walk in modesty with God.

I cherish justice more than most people -- certainly more than those Christians who hated me for much of my life merely for being me. I also cherish loyalty, and give it where I can, but demand it of no one. I have no idea what it means "to walk modestly." I simply walk to get somewhere, and there's never any god along to keep me company.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

In Scripture we are dealing with the Hebrew word 'a-naw' from the root word 'a-nah' which means humble.

I wasn't. My copy was in English, and the word used was meek

I must admit I never heard of Moses (Numbers 12:3) or Jesus being in poverty of spirit or easily pushed around or taken advantage of.

Then they weren't meek.

In what way in the movie was Milton like Moses or Jesus.

Not at all. Milton was meek. You say they weren't.

Jesus endured without complaint and showed great zeal when he twice threw out the greedy money changers.

The meek don't do that.

Those parents were having their children grow up violent just like themselves. They would Not stay innocent.

That's a shocking comment. It reminds me of something I saw on the Atheist Experience, with Tracie Harris and Matt Dillahunty.

Tracie: "You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, 'When you're done, I'm going to punish you' .. If I were in a situation where I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God."

Christian caller Shane:"True to life, you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent. She's just as evil as you."

Matt: [click] Goodbye, you piece of s***. I was a better Christian than you when I was a Christian and I still am

I don't see you in those terms, but really - do you really want to justify preemptive killing of children lest they grow up wrong?

Here are over 60 literal, specific prophecies filled by Israel since 1948: 10 Prophecies Fulfilled in 1948

Not specific enough. Prophecy didn't give the date. Here's what high quality prophecy looks like:

There was a movie some years back called Frequency in which Dennis Quaid's character’s son contacts his father from his father's future by ham radio. To convince his father that he, the son, really is calling him from the father's future - from 1998 back to 1969 - the son discusses the outcome of game five of what is for the father the as-yet unfinished 1969 World Series, which the father is watching live in 1969 on TV in a local pub :

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuff mark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

Then the father watches it happen on TV.

That's high quality "prophecy." That's a convincing knowledge of future events, once fraud such as a tape-delayed broadcast of an already played game is ruled out. Extremely specific and unexpected, and accompanied by no error. Biblical prophecy like the example you provided just can't compare to that. It doesn't convince.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I wasn't. My copy was in English, and the word used was meek



Then they weren't meek.



Not at all. Milton was meek. You say they weren't.



The meek don't do that.



That's a shocking comment. It reminds me of something I saw on the Atheist Experience, with Tracie Harris and Matt Dillahunty.

Tracie: "You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, 'When you're done, I'm going to punish you' .. If I were in a situation where I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God."

Christian caller Shane:"True to life, you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent. She's just as evil as you."

Matt: [click] Goodbye, you piece of s***. I was a better Christian than you when I was a Christian and I still am

I don't see you in those terms, but really - do you really want to justify preemptive killing of children lest they grow up wrong?



Not specific enough. Prophecy didn't give the date. Here's what high quality prophecy looks like:

There was a movie some years back called Frequency in which Dennis Quaid's character’s son contacts his father from his father's future by ham radio. To convince his father that he, the son, really is calling him from the father's future - from 1998 back to 1969 - the son discusses the outcome of game five of what is for the father the as-yet unfinished 1969 World Series, which the father is watching live in 1969 on TV in a local pub :

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuff mark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

Then the father watches it happen on TV.

That's high quality "prophecy." That's a convincing knowledge of future events, once fraud such as a tape-delayed broadcast of an already played game is ruled out. Extremely specific and unexpected, and accompanied by no error. Biblical prophecy like the example you provided just can't compare to that. It doesn't convince.

One of my favorite Atheist Experience shows. Brilliant.

I have used that statement myself, "I was a better Christian than you are, and I still am."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

One of my favorite Atheist Experience shows. Brilliant.

I have used that statement myself, "I was a better Christian than you are, and I still am."

Maybe you just disbelieve in a better Christian God than the one they believe in?

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, Daniel 12:4,9 is placed in the end times, the end times of badness on Earth as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

And people have been claiming that this particular passage has applied to their particular time for centuries. What makes you right when they were all wrong?

Predicting the end of the world for thousands of years does Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes the calculations or guesses as wrong.

But they were just as convinced that they were right as you are now. What makes you right when they were all wrong?

Plus, there are people who think the end of the world means the end of Earth, that is Not what the Bible teaches.

But they were just as convinced that they were right as you are now. What makes you right when they were all wrong?

It is the 'end of all badness on Earth'. God will bring to ruin those ruining Earth - Revelation 11:18 B.

That could apply to just about any point in the last several centuries.

There are different kinds of prophecies, as I described here. What you are describing is the "Predict something that is likely to happen anyway" style of prophecy.

As to when Jesus' thousand-year day begins I am letting you know when that happens.
The answer is found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the ' powers that be ' will be saying, "Peace and Security..." that is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Once again, people have been saying that for centuries.

Face it, it's not happening.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You have provided justification for any of my points, just apologetics
EX 21:20-21 says that with the Lord's approval, a slave may be beaten to death with no punishment for the perpetrator as long as the slave doesn't die too quickly
2 Samuel 8:13 says David slew 18,000 Edomites and made the rest slaves.
Numbers 31:9 states that following the Lord's command, Moses orders the Israelites to kill all the Midianite male children and every woman who has known man. How it was determined which women had known men? One can only speculate.
Judges 21:10-12 says Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." Again, how did they know? Did god god "kill her, bit not that one because she is a virgin?" Or was it determined by physical examination?
However it was determined they so find four hundred young virgins whom they bring back for their own use... I.e. sex slavery

Chapter 21of Judges is part of the internal strife in ancient Israel.
I find the word ' wives ' (Not slaves) at Judges 21:14; Judges 21:18; Judges 21:22-23.
Those people (Jabesh-Gilead Joshua 9:3-27) had No harm come to them - Joshua 3:15; Joshua 3:18
Besides long-term slaves, there were in ancient Israel short-term slaves to pay off one's debt (No debtor's jail in ancient Israel) The Jubilee Year gave early freedom from debt - Exodus 21:2; Leviticus 25:10,13, 39-40.

Continuing at Exodus 21:26-27 if a master mistreats, then the slave was No longer a slave but set free.
There was penalty (punishment ) for bodily injury as per Exodus 21:22-25.
In ancient Israel there was the ' avenger of blood '.
In the King James at Exodus 21:20 says ' surely punished ' instead of from the Hebrew 'must be avenged'.
In the Hebrew at Exodus 21:20 it is talking about the killing of a slave that he shall surely be 'avenged' .
So, the 'avenger of blood ' could legally take the life of the person doing the killing as per Leviticus 24:17.

At 2 Samuel 8:13-14 I don't see the word slaves but as 'servants'.
In verse 13, I read Syrians there. In verse 14 about Edom.

At Numbers 31:9 mentions women and their minor children as captives.
At Numbers 31:16-17 mentions because of the matter of Pe'or there was a 'plague'. (venereal disease?)
That could be because there was immoral worship connected to the worship of the Baal of Pe'or.
Thus, to spare those with the plague could have spread to Israel.
The rest of them could have their lives spared.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And people have been claiming that this particular passage has applied to their particular time for centuries. What makes you right when they were all wrong?
But they were just as convinced that they were right as you are now. What makes you right when they were all wrong?

The difference is found in the international scope about the global proclaiming of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Never before in history has God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 been spread on such a vast world-wide scale.
At Luke 21:11 Luke even uses the adjective ' great ' in connection to earthquakes as we see great quakes now.
Now is also in connection to Luke 17:28 .... and they were building. And vast building construction is happening today.
Even modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation ( which Book has been translated more )
So, now people even in remote areas of Earth can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
The people of the past being wrong does Not make the Bible as wrong.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wrong.
Gods -- and the worship thereof? Requires slave behavior. This is why the New Testament is chock-full of "master" and "slave" language.
Some people refuse to be slaves, and therefore? Have no gods of any stripe, metaphorical or otherwise.
I know this is difficult for goddites to comprehend, but it's true.

Some people ' $lave ' for riches $$$$$$$$ so that puts riches or materialism first as their ' god '.
I know of two people who absolutely put smoking as first above anything else in life, so they are slaves to tobacco.
Some people are ' slaves ' to doing one's own thing. Putting the doing of ' one's own thing ' first is their ' god '.
So, a person can slave for something, or even salve for nothing, but nevertheless, what is first is what is slaved for.
I suppose fighting against God could be a form of slaving against God if that is a person's first priority or goal in life.

 

[Tiberius]

The difference is found in the international scope about the global proclaiming of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Never before in history has God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 been spread on such a vast world-wide scale.
At Luke 21:11 Luke even uses the adjective ' great ' in connection to earthquakes as we see great quakes now.
Now is also in connection to Luke 17:28 .... and they were building. And vast building construction is happening today.
Even modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation ( which Book has been translated more )
So, now people even in remote areas of Earth can now have Scripture in their own mother tongue or native languages.
The people of the past being wrong does Not make the Bible as wrong.

Hardly convincing. The number of Christians is still surpassed by the number of non-Christians. People have also been claiming the fulfillment of prophecy due to the spreading around the world for a few hundred years as well.

None of what you are claiming is unique to the present. This is just a case of people predicting things that are likely to happen and then claiming it is the signs of the end of days. Tell me, how long do we have to wait before the actual end? A year? Ten years? How long?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Murder is murder in my book, you can make any excuses you want but they are ultimately just excuses

Yes, murder is murder, and an execution is an execution. An execution is for the sake of justice for the righteous.
We can Not read hearts, but according to Scripture God and Jesus can.
Thus, No one innocent will be executed at the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' will be against the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Only those judged as wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7
Call Jeremiah 25:31-33 an excuse, but that does Not make it an excuse, but a foretelling of what is to come.
What will happen before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

 

[ChristineM]

Chapter 21of Judges is part of the internal strife in ancient Israel.
I find the word ' wives ' (Not slaves) at Judges 21:14; Judges 21:18; Judges 21:22-23.
Those people (Jabesh-Gilead Joshua 9:3-27) had No harm come to them - Joshua 3:15; Joshua 3:18
Besides long-term slaves, there were in ancient Israel short-term slaves to pay off one's debt (No debtor's jail in ancient Israel) The Jubilee Year gave early freedom from debt - Exodus 21:2; Leviticus 25:10,13, 39-40.

Continuing at Exodus 21:26-27 if a master mistreats, then the slave was No longer a slave but set free.
There was penalty (punishment ) for bodily injury as per Exodus 21:22-25.
In ancient Israel there was the ' avenger of blood '.
In the King James at Exodus 21:20 says ' surely punished ' instead of from the Hebrew 'must be avenged'.
In the Hebrew at Exodus 21:20 it is talking about the killing of a slave that he shall surely be 'avenged' .
So, the 'avenger of blood ' could legally take the life of the person doing the killing as per Leviticus 24:17.

At 2 Samuel 8:13-14 I don't see the word slaves but as 'servants'.
In verse 13, I read Syrians there. In verse 14 about Edom.

At Numbers 31:9 mentions women and their minor children as captives.
At Numbers 31:16-17 mentions because of the matter of Pe'or there was a 'plague'. (venereal disease?)
That could be because there was immoral worship connected to the worship of the Baal of Pe'or.
Thus, to spare those with the plague could have spread to Israel.
The rest of them could have their lives spared.

Apologetics, blind assumption and wild leaps in a time machine of no help.

The bible is clearly written, interpretation is not required unless the bits you dont like need to be covered up.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Hardly convincing. The number of Christians is still surpassed by the number of non-Christians. People have also been claiming the fulfillment of prophecy due to the spreading around the world for a few hundred years as well.
None of what you are claiming is unique to the present. This is just a case of people predicting things that are likely to happen and then claiming it is the signs of the end of days. Tell me, how long do we have to wait before the actual end? A year? Ten years? How long?

Aw, come on. I think you know the exact time is unknown as per Matthew 24:36
But we do know the ' season ' is now ripe - Matthew 24:32-33
The number of Christians, or so-called Christians, has nothing to do with quantity but quality.
Even Jesus said ' few ' at Matthew chapter 7.
A few hundred years ago we did Not have rapid Bible translation as today.
A few hundred year ago the Bible was Not in as many languages as it is today. (which Book has been translated more)
Since we are now at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8, that means we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when the 'powers that be ' will be saying, "Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
So, we are Not looking for a year but that the time frame is now right, and that a false 'rosy' picture is going to be painted for mankind before the 'powers that be' will turn on the religious world starting with Christendom which corresponds to unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70 when the Roman armies by surprise attacked unfaithful Jerusalem.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Apologetics, blind assumption and wild leaps in a time machine of no help.
The bible is clearly written, interpretation is not required unless the bits you dont like need to be covered up.

What interpretation, ancient Israel was never in the save-trade business as the U.S, South was.

 

[ChristineM]

Yes, murder is murder, and an execution is an execution. An execution is for the sake of justice for the righteous.
We can Not read hearts, but according to Scripture God and Jesus can.
Thus, No one innocent will be executed at the coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
The 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' will be against the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
Only those judged as wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' as per Psalms 92:7
Call Jeremiah 25:31-33 an excuse, but that does Not make it an excuse, but a foretelling of what is to come.
What will happen before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Who decides the justice? God or a jury of peers. In every case in the bible the justice was arbitrarily metered out by god.

Yet innocent babies and fetuses were executed. Why do you always ignore that fact?

Peace on earth on jcs terms, just as long as you agree and worship him you wont be "executed" . This the peace you want?