Atheism is a RELIGION

[ChristineM]

What interpretation, ancient Israel was never in the save-trade business as the U.S, South was.

What?

Throwing up strawmen is not helpful we are discussing the bible

 

[Subduction Zone]

What interpretation, ancient Israel was never in the save-trade business as the U.S, South was.

The South was never officially in the slave trade business either. It was legal there just as it was in ancient Israel. Of course the ancient Hebrews c!aimed that God told them that they could have slaves. There really was not that big of a difference between the two.

 

[sooda]

The official definition of Atheism #151

atheism. n. disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.​

Conclusion

1. It is a religious claim, and not rooted in science, logic, philosophy etc.

2. The claim for belief in God (The Dawkin's Scale *)

3. The claim for disbelief in God

4. The claim for without belief in God

(vs. not making a choice when everything has its causes and effects, IS A CHOICE - Burden of Proof)​

* There are 320,000,000 Gods

Therefore, the definition of Atheism asserts the belief in 320,000,000 Gods.

Atheism is a Religion.



*

Premise 1: Who is an Atheist?

Pure Agnostic: God's existence and non-existence are exactly EQUIPROBABLE.
Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists, but I'm declined to be SKEPTICAL.
De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very IMPROBABLE.​

Premise 2: "Equiprobable, skeptical, improbable" means:

1. Disbelief in God(s)
2. Belief in God(s)​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: Atheism is a religion with 320,000,000 Gods
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------



4. Pure Agnostic

God's existence and non-existence are exactly EQUIPROBABLE.​

equiprobable: (of two or more things) equally likely to occur; having EQUAL PROBABILITY.​

Therefore:

1. Disbelief in God(s)
2. Belief in God(s)
3. Therefore, the definition of Atheism asserts the belief in 320,000,000 Gods.​

5. Weak Atheist

I do not know whether God exists, but I'm declined to be SKEPTICAL.​

skeptical​

1. not easily convinced; having doubts or reservations.
2. relating to the theory that certain knowledge is impossible.​

Therefore:

1. Disbelief in God(s)
2. Belief in God(s)
3. Therefore, the definition of Atheism asserts the belief in 320,000,000 Gods.​

6. De-facto Atheist

I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very IMPROBABLE.​

improbable​

1. not likely to be true or to happen.

synonyms: unlikely, not likely, doubtful, dubious, debatable, questionable, uncertain;
More: unexpected and apparently inauthentic.​

Therefore:

1. Disbelief in God(s)
2. Belief in God(s)
3. Therefore, the definition of Atheism asserts the belief in 320,000,000 Gods.
​

Progress:

The definition #1 #151 Atheism is a Religion . #6 #32#37 #41 #205 #223

Strawman Fallacy: #235

Worldviews: #241

Makes no sense at all. Where do they worship? What is their sacred text? Who do they pray to?

Who asserts they believe in 320,000,000 gods? Did you just make that up?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I wasn't. My copy was in English, and the word used was meek



Then they weren't meek.



Not at all. Milton was meek. You say they weren't.



The meek don't do that.



That's a shocking comment. It reminds me of something I saw on the Atheist Experience, with Tracie Harris and Matt Dillahunty.

Tracie: "You either have a God who sends child rapists to rape children or you have a God who simply watches it and says, 'When you're done, I'm going to punish you' .. If I were in a situation where I could stop a person from raping a child, I would. That's the difference between me and your God."

Christian caller Shane:"True to life, you portray that little girl as someone who is innocent. She's just as evil as you."

Matt: [click] Goodbye, you piece of s***. I was a better Christian than you when I was a Christian and I still am

I don't see you in those terms, but really - do you really want to justify preemptive killing of children lest they grow up wrong?



Not specific enough. Prophecy didn't give the date. Here's what high quality prophecy looks like:

There was a movie some years back called Frequency in which Dennis Quaid's character’s son contacts his father from his father's future by ham radio. To convince his father that he, the son, really is calling him from the father's future - from 1998 back to 1969 - the son discusses the outcome of game five of what is for the father the as-yet unfinished 1969 World Series, which the father is watching live in 1969 on TV in a local pub :

"Well, game five was the big one. It turned in the bottom of the 6th. We were down 3-0. Cleon Jones gets hit on the foot - left a scuff mark on the ball. Clendenon comes up. The count goes to 2 and 2. High fastball. He nailed it. Weis slammed a solo shot in the 7th to tie. Jones and Swoboda scored in the 8th. We won, Pop."

Then the father watches it happen on TV.

That's high quality "prophecy." That's a convincing knowledge of future events, once fraud such as a tape-delayed broadcast of an already played game is ruled out. Extremely specific and unexpected, and accompanied by no error. Biblical prophecy like the example you provided just can't compare to that. It doesn't convince.

It would help if you explain what you feel is a vague prophecy in the page cited or elsewhere.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

It would help if you explain what you feel is a vague prophecy in the page cited or elsewhere.

High quality prophecy is specific, detailed and unambiguous. Optimally, the time and place are specified. It also needs to prophecy something unexpected, unlikely or unique - something that was not self-fulfilling and could not have been contrived or easily guessed. High quality prophecy must be accurate and unaccompanied by failed prophecies. The prophecies must be verified that they came before the event predicted, and that they were fulfilled completely.

Low quality prophecy is relatively vague and nonspecific, predicts trivial or predictable events, is self-fulling, or was written after the fact. Predicting that a new religion will experience prejudice doesn't require omniscience.

The example I gave you from the movie Frequency was a fictional example of what would be considered high quality prophecy had it occurred.

The prophecies of science are also high quality. The recent find of the Higgs boson at precisely the energy predicted, and with the other characteristics specified in the prediction such as charge, spin, parity, is the latest triumph in scientific prophecy. So great was the scientific community's and its underwriters’ confidence in science and its ability to prophecy, an incredibly large, powerful, and expensive device, the Large Hadron Collider was built to find the particle, which was right where it was predicted to be.

Biblical prophecies such as the one in Daniel 2:31-48, where, Daniel interprets the prophetic meaning of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, are an example of something too vague to be considered high quality prophecy. It is about a horrific-looking, immense, man-like figure made of clay, iron, brass, silver, and gold, which was pulverized to dust by a stone that became a huge mountain, and was then carried away by the wind. According to Daniel, this allegedly forecasted a series of lesser kingdoms to come in the future. Really? Maybe it was predicting 9/11 or the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico.

 

[Subduction Zone]

High quality prophecy is specific, detailed and unambiguous. Optimally, the time and place are specified. It also needs to prophecy something unexpected, unlikely or unique - something that was not self-fulfilling and could not have been contrived or easily guessed. High quality prophecy must be accurate and unaccompanied by failed prophecies. The prophecies must be verified that they came before the event predicted, and that they were fulfilled completely.

Low quality prophecy is relatively vague and nonspecific, predicts trivial or predictable events, is self-fulling, or was written after the fact. Predicting that a new religion will experience prejudice doesn't require omniscience.

The example I gave you from the movie Frequency was a fictional example of what would be considered high quality prophecy had it occurred.

The prophecies of science are also high quality. The recent find of the Higgs boson at precisely the energy predicted, and with the other characteristics specified in the prediction such as charge, spin, parity, is the latest triumph in scientific prophecy. So great was the scientific community's and its underwriters’ confidence in science and its ability to prophecy, an incredibly large, powerful, and expensive device, the Large Hadron Collider was built to find the particle, which was right where it was predicted to be.

Biblical prophecies such as the one in Daniel 2:31-48, where, Daniel interprets the prophetic meaning of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, are an example of something too vague to be considered high quality prophecy. It is about a horrific-looking, immense, man-like figure made of clay, iron, brass, silver, and gold, which was pulverized to dust by a stone that became a huge mountain, and was then carried away by the wind. According to Daniel, this allegedly forecasted a series of lesser kingdoms to come in the future. Really? Maybe it was predicting 9/11 or the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico.

Though at times a bit biased RationalWiki has an excellent article on Biblical prophecies. Link to the qualifications for a true prophecy:

Biblical prophecies - RationalWiki

"Criteria for a true prophecy[edit]
For a statement to be Biblical foreknowledge, it must fit all of the five following criteria:

1. It must be accurate. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not accurate, because knowledge (and thus foreknowledge) excludes inaccurate statements. TLDR: It's true.
2. It must be in the Bible. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not in the Bible, because Biblical by definition foreknowledge can only come from the Bible itself, rather than modern reinterpretations of the text. TLDR: It's in plain words in the Bible.
3. It must be precise and unambiguous. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if meaningless philosophical musings or multiple possible ideas could fulfill the foreknowledge, because ambiguity prevents one from knowing whether the foreknowledge was intentional rather than accidental. TLDR: Vague "predictions" don't count.
4. It must be improbable. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of a pure guess, because foreknowledge requires a person to actually know something true, while a correct guess doesn't mean that the guesser knows anything. This also excludes contemporary beliefs that happened be true but were believed to be true without solid evidence. TLDR: Lucky guesses don't count.
5. It must have been unknown. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of an educated guess based off contemporary knowledge, because foreknowledge requires a person to know a statement when it would have been impossible, outside of supernatural power, for that person to know it. TLDR: Ideas of the time don't count."

The entire article is worth a read.

 

[Tiberius]

Aw, come on. I think you know the exact time is unknown as per Matthew 24:36
But we do know the ' season ' is now ripe - Matthew 24:32-33
The number of Christians, or so-called Christians, has nothing to do with quantity but quality.
Even Jesus said ' few ' at Matthew chapter 7.
A few hundred years ago we did Not have rapid Bible translation as today.
A few hundred year ago the Bible was Not in as many languages as it is today. (which Book has been translated more)
Since we are now at the ' final phase ' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8, that means we are nearing the ' final signal ', so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when the 'powers that be ' will be saying, "Peace and Security..." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.
So, we are Not looking for a year but that the time frame is now right, and that a false 'rosy' picture is going to be painted for mankind before the 'powers that be' will turn on the religious world starting with Christendom which corresponds to unfaithful Jerusalem in the year 70 when the Roman armies by surprise attacked unfaithful Jerusalem.

Still not convincing. People have been twisting these passages to mean the end of the world for ages. They've all been wrong, and you've done nothing to show you are any different.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Enjoyed this....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Maybe you just disbelieve in a better Christian God than the one they believe in?

Indeed.

I was once asked that very question: "Yes, I understand you don't believe in God. But, what I want to know, is *which* God is it, that you don't believe in?"

*sigh*

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Some people ' $lave ' for riches $$$$$$$$ so that puts riches or materialism first as their ' god '..

No. It does not. You are diluting the meaning of that word.

I know of two people who absolutely put smoking as first above anything else in life, so they are slaves to tobacco..

That is, again, making a mockery of people who were actually slaves.

People can become addicted to drugs, be it nicotine or other things. But, that's not even a little like being a SLAVE.

A SLAVE has no choice. Someone addicted can get help, to get better.

Some people are ' slaves ' to doing one's own thing. Putting the doing of ' one's own thing ' first is their ' god '..

Again, nope. You are utterly twisting the meaning of the word "god". Into something, that I suspect, you'd rather it not be.

So, a person can slave for something, or even salve for nothing, but nevertheless, what is first is what is slaved for.
I suppose fighting against God could be a form of slaving against God if that is a person's first priority or goal in life.

Again-- you have twisted the word "god" into ... an Insult.

Was that your goal? Because I happen to agree...

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Indeed.

I was once asked that very question: "Yes, I understand you don't believe in God. But, what I want to know, is *which* God is it, that you don't believe in?"

*sigh*

Yup. Like maybe you've been sitting there discarding each of the millions of gods one by one.

'Okay Cardea, I've been praying to you for a week, and my front door still squeaks. I'm giving you until tomorrow, or I'll have to conclude you don't exist.
Next up : Tlazolteotl'

 

[Revoltingest]

Y
Next up : Tlazolteotl'

Fool !!
She's the god of laundry appliances, not doors.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Fool !!
She's the god of laundry appliances, not doors.

Actually, door hinges.
Romans were pretty specific with their domestic godesses.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Actually, door hinges.
Romans were pretty specific with their domestic godesses.

Hmmm..... meanwhile, people were praying instead of doing basic maintenance and prevention?

Eureka! You may have discovered the *real* reason for the fall of the Roman Empire. Too much praying, too little maintenance of infrastructure....

 

[BilliardsBall]

High quality prophecy is specific, detailed and unambiguous. Optimally, the time and place are specified. It also needs to prophecy something unexpected, unlikely or unique - something that was not self-fulfilling and could not have been contrived or easily guessed. High quality prophecy must be accurate and unaccompanied by failed prophecies. The prophecies must be verified that they came before the event predicted, and that they were fulfilled completely.

Low quality prophecy is relatively vague and nonspecific, predicts trivial or predictable events, is self-fulling, or was written after the fact. Predicting that a new religion will experience prejudice doesn't require omniscience.

The example I gave you from the movie Frequency was a fictional example of what would be considered high quality prophecy had it occurred.

The prophecies of science are also high quality. The recent find of the Higgs boson at precisely the energy predicted, and with the other characteristics specified in the prediction such as charge, spin, parity, is the latest triumph in scientific prophecy. So great was the scientific community's and its underwriters’ confidence in science and its ability to prophecy, an incredibly large, powerful, and expensive device, the Large Hadron Collider was built to find the particle, which was right where it was predicted to be.

Biblical prophecies such as the one in Daniel 2:31-48, where, Daniel interprets the prophetic meaning of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, are an example of something too vague to be considered high quality prophecy. It is about a horrific-looking, immense, man-like figure made of clay, iron, brass, silver, and gold, which was pulverized to dust by a stone that became a huge mountain, and was then carried away by the wind. According to Daniel, this allegedly forecasted a series of lesser kingdoms to come in the future. Really? Maybe it was predicting 9/11 or the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico.

You failed to address my specific, fulfilled prophecies:

Israel to be scattered in diaspora to many, many nations (check) while

Retaining Hebrew, identity, Judaism, practice (check) while

Being a blessing in each nation, for example, Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence - Wikipedia (check) while

Being persecuted in each nation, horribly (check) while

Retaining identity and being persecuted without a sound, logical reason (check) then

Returning to their land, making it a Jewish-led nation in one day's time (check) while

Being surrounded by and assailed by enemies (check) while

Fulfilling 60 other literal, specific prophecies since 1948.

I do NOT expect you to address the above, but I'm disappointed that you created a straw man of what good prophecy should look like, when my people have been a living example of it. AND fulfilled prophecies regarding 1948 CE.

Yet, however, I've noticed that my atheist friends when "nailed" by specific, measurable prophecies wriggle away.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You failed to address my specific, fulfilled prophecies:

Israel to be scattered in diaspora to many, many nations (check) while.

Not much of a guess, is it? Considering how many nations they invaded and murdered wholesale? And how often they got conquored and enslaved? Well.... it's a short bus to guess this one.

Retaining Hebrew, identity, Judaism, practice (check) while.

Self fulfilling "prophecy". Duuuuh.

Being a blessing in each nation, for example, Ashkenazi Jewish intelligence - Wikipedia (check) while.

Except that they were not-- never made it to anywhere in the Americas, for example (until very late modern times, and even then? Not everywhere)

Being persecuted in each nation, horribly (check) while.

See my first point above. Self-fulfilling "prophecy"

Retaining identity and being persecuted without a sound, logical reason (check) then
.

Repeating yourself doesn't help your case... !

Returning to their land, making it a Jewish-led nation in one day's time (check) while
.

Self-fulfilling "prophecy". Again.

Being surrounded by and assailed by enemies (check) while.

Well if you are an <expletitive> to everyone around you? That kinda goes without saying...

Fulfilling 60 other literal, specific prophecies since 1948..

All completely debunked, as noted before.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Who decides the justice? God or a jury of peers. In every case in the bible the justice was arbitrarily metered out by god.
Yet innocent babies and fetuses were executed. Why do you always ignore that fact?
Peace on earth on jcs terms, just as long as you agree and worship him you wont be "executed" . This the peace you want?

I am Not ignoring 1 Corinthians 7:14. Parents are responsible for minor children.
Jesus directed all worship go to his Father - John 4:23-24.
Since Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13:34-35 stresses to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has, then "yes" that is the peace I want because loving the other person as Jesus said now means to love the other person ' more ' than love of self.

Jesus will be the just-and-fair judge of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40. So, Jesus will judge who is a ' sheep ' or a ' goat '.
We as individuals do No judging that is given to Jesus to do according to John 5:22; John 5:27.

 

[ChristineM]

I am Not ignoring 1 Corinthians 7:14. Parents are responsible for minor children.
Jesus directed all worship go to his Father - John 4:23-24.
Since Jesus' NEW commandment of John 13:34-35 stresses to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has, then "yes" that is the peace I want because loving the other person as Jesus said now means to love the other person ' more ' than love of self.

Jesus will be the just-and-fair judge of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40. So, Jesus will judge who is a ' sheep ' or a ' goat '.
We as individuals do No judging that is given to Jesus to do according to John 5:22; John 5:27.

So why were the babies murdered?

Are you saying those who dont bow down to worship your god or your jesus are somehow inferior, are incapable of love?

His dad was far from just according to the bible, why do you assume the son will be any better?

From what i see christians are constantly judging others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So why were the babies murdered?
Are you saying those who dont bow down to worship your god or your jesus are somehow inferior, are incapable of love?
His dad was far from just according to the bible, why do you assume the son will be any better?
From what i see christians are constantly judging others.

For one, are you seeing Christians or so-called Christians - Genuine 'wheat ' would be few - Matthew chapter 7.
No, Not saying incapable of love. Even the people referred to at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 can show love, but theirs is a selfish distorted form of love in sharp contrast to the definition of Christ-like love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
Around my neighborhood I do Not see people thinking ' more ' of the other person than they do themselves.
One neighbor is somewhat helpful, another is quite helpful, and the youngest neighbor is Not helpful at all.

In Scripture there is a difference between murder and an 'execution'.
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14.
So, the parents of Noah's day were filling the Earth with violence,etc. - Genesis 6:11.
As the old adage goes, 'the apple does Not fall far from the tree'.
And, 'as the twig is bent to the tree grows', and 'Chip off the old block'.
Those people were past the point of reform, and their children would have grown up just like their parents.
We do Not know the point of No return, but God does and that is when He will act.
Those classed as figurative imperfect ' sheep ' are Not past the point of No return - Matthew 25:37,40.

You'll probably think this illustration is Not accurate but here goes.
If you had a very beautiful house that became infested with rats would you get rid of your house______
Most people I would think would call in an exterminator and get rid of the adult rats? or rather all rats ______
So, the wicked who will be ' destroyed forever ' would include both parent and minor child.

 

[ChristineM]

For one, are you seeing Christians or so-called Christians - Genuine 'wheat ' would be few - Matthew chapter 7.
No, Not saying incapable of love. Even the people referred to at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 can show love, but theirs is a selfish distorted form of love in sharp contrast to the definition of Christ-like love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
Around my neighborhood I do Not see people thinking ' more ' of the other person than they do themselves.
One neighbor is somewhat helpful, another is quite helpful, and the youngest neighbor is Not helpful at all.

In Scripture there is a difference between murder and an 'execution'.
Parents are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14.
So, the parents of Noah's day were filling the Earth with violence,etc. - Genesis 6:11.
As the old adage goes, 'the apple does Not fall far from the tree'.
And, 'as the twig is bent to the tree grows', and 'Chip off the old block'.
Those people were past the point of reform, and their children would have grown up just like their parents.
We do Not know the point of No return, but God does and that is when He will act.
Those classed as figurative imperfect ' sheep ' are Not past the point of No return - Matthew 25:37,40.

You'll probably think this illustration is Not accurate but here goes.
If you had a very beautiful house that became infested with rats would you get rid of your house______
Most people I would think would call in an exterminator and get rid of the adult rats? or rather all rats ______
So, the wicked who will be ' destroyed forever ' would include both parent and minor child.

There ya go "so called christians" .judging!

Selfish, distorted love. That is an insult based on bigotry.

Yes you have said there is a difference between murder and execution. The only apologetic you have given is one is done by god, one by non god. That is not a justification, innocents still wound up dead by violent means

Yes, the book says parents were responsible not the innocent children who were murdered

An irrelevant illustration,

i believe we are just going round and round and round the same bull here. You cannot admit that your god murdered innocent children despite saying they were not responsible. So i am done.