Atheism is just another religion

[Jumi]

I do not consider it as simplistic as you describe, and I do not consider the word 'religion' a stone to throw at people who believe differently.

You do consider religion something that isn't anything special though, since religion can be made from one "belief". That would make my change from atheism to monotheism to also mean that I changed religions, which is simply not true at all. I hold practically the same beliefs I did when I was atheist.

You also did say atheism is a religion with a belief system, but then you used atheism as atheists do, to depict a lack of belief in gods when talking about Buddhists. If the Buddhist Atheists had two religions, Atheism and Buddhism and the Buddhist Theists would have Theism religion and Atheism religion then we could call it a valid view.

 

[shunyadragon]

You do consider religion something that isn't anything special though, since religion can be made from one "belief". That would make my change from atheism to monotheism to also mean that I changed religions, which is simply not true at all. I hold practically the same beliefs I did when I was atheist.

You also did say atheism is a religion with a belief system, but then you used atheism as atheists do, to depict a lack of belief in gods when talking about Buddhists. If the Buddhist Atheists had two religions, Atheism and Buddhism and the Buddhist Theists would have Theism religion and Atheism religion then we could call it a valid view.

I define religion, religious belief, and belief system broadly to include the diversity of human belief. There are in reality combination such as in Buddhism and Taoism that are not two different religions not belief systems. To artificially exclude or include this belief or that, and it is unrealistic to put people in separate boxes because their religion includes different beliefs.

Religion, religious beliefs and belief systems can be organized, disorganized, individualized, sanforized, digitized, or whateverized, and they can believe and disbelieve in many assorted things..

 

[HonestJoe]

I really don't understand why you have chosen to fight this battle, what satisfaction do you gain?

You tell us, you started the thread.

When people post threads asserting that atheism is a religion (and typically asserting or implying negative characteristics of all atheists) a few other people (not all of them atheist themselves) will challenge them. Of course, all sorts of statements misusing words or misrepresenting people will commonly be challenged, especially in places like this.

I very much doubt you'll find many examples of someone asserting that atheism isn't a religion without context. It's just not a natural line of thought.

 

[Jumi]

I define religion, religious belief, and belief system broadly to include the diversity of human belief. There are in reality combination such as in Buddhism and Taoism that are not two different religions not belief systems. To artificially exclude or include this belief or that, and it is unrealistic to put people in separate boxes because their religion includes different beliefs.

Well that makes sense except for the part where "atheism is a belief system that is a religion" comes in. I think religion requires quite a bit more than lacking something. Or is atheism in your view the only universal religion, that exists in all cultures all time periods? It still makes zero sense to me, why you would call it a religion.

Religion, religious beliefs and belief systems can be organized, disorganized, individualized, sanforized, digitized, or whateverized, and they can believe and disbelieve in many assorted things..

You're saying that we as theists have the same religion("Theism"), even if we don't share belief systems?

 

[Willamena]

I would think if I truely didn't believe in God there wouldn't be any room in all of my awareness and understanding for God and anytime I bumped up against that concept I'd have to go, What?

First I'd ask myself if there was anything missing in my life and if the answer was no then that would be it.

I've had so many threads hijacked by militants (both sides, mind you) to this cause and looking through the threads you will find the same behavior.

So I question, why would it be important for me to let other's know what I really don't believe, why is it important to defend the word, Atheism?

Speaking for myself, when I get involved in threads about atheism it's not to defend atheism but the English language from those who would abuse it.

 

[ChristineM]

Do you really believe you answered my question?

I answerer it from my point of view, as i said we are all different and i can't speak for anyone else.

So what answer would satisfy you? One you agree with?

 

[Underhill]

I would think if I truely didn't believe in God there wouldn't be any room in all of my awareness and understanding for God and anytime I bumped up against that concept I'd have to go, What?

First I'd ask myself if there was anything missing in my life and if the answer was no then that would be it.

I've had so many threads hijacked by militants (both sides, mind you) to this cause and looking through the threads you will find the same behavior.

So I question, why would it be important for me to let other's know what I really don't believe, why is it important to defend the word, Atheism?

It has more to do with religion that it does with atheism. Those of us who come from a religious background and who have been told we are going to hell and who may have been disowned by friends or family, often feel the need to defend ourselves against the religions which are constantly badmouthing and disrespecting us, all while demanding we respect their hocus-pocus.

Or it could just be we all feel the need to defend a word.

 

[Willamena]

Has it occurred to anyone that the bases for the argument was that believers believed in spirit and matter and non believers believed in matter sans spirit. Science has proven that there is no difference between matter and spirit except in density and they introduced us to infinity a concept that most believers and non believers have difficulty trying to understand. I really don't understand why you have chosen to fight this battle, what satisfaction do you gain? Seinfeld was a show about nothing and this argument is about nothing.

That's not exactly the history of it that I understand. Believers believed their spirit (per se) belonged to God, and non-believers believed it belonged to themselves, that man was his own person. Hence the term "freethinker."

 

[shunyadragon]

Well that makes sense except for the part where "atheism is a belief system that is a religion" comes in. I think religion requires quite a bit more than lacking something. Or is atheism in your view the only universal religion, that exists in all cultures all time periods? It still makes zero sense to me, why you would call it a religion.

What individual require of a belief to be or not to be a religion is over loaded with bias.

You're saying that we as theists have the same religion("Theism"), even if we don't share belief systems?

No, theism is a property of some religions and belief systems and not a religion in and of itself.

 

[shunyadragon]

Exactly. So, it seems stupid to say that those specific atheists hold a belief about God. Rather, they lack belief due to lack of evidence. How could that be construed to be a religion?

Easily, all religions believe in somethings and not other things. The lack of belief does not put you in an exclusive club above others where you lob the word religion like stones at others who believe differently.

 

[David T]

That's cool but why do you have to call yourself a spiritual satanist, why not just a seeker of truth?

That's not scary

 

[leibowde84]

Easily, all religions believe in somethings and not other things. The lack of belief does not put you in an exclusive club above others where you lob the word religion like stones at others who believe differently.

Atheism is the lack of belief. You say yourself that all religions "believe in some things". How could atheism be a religion if there is no unifying belief, but rather the absence of a very specific belief?

 

[Jumi]

What individual require of a belief to be or not to be a religion is over loaded with bias.

So you are reluctant to say what makes atheism a religion?

No, theism is a property of some religions and belief systems and not a religion in and of itself.

So in your reasoning why is atheism a religion if theism isn't? If atheist Buddhists have at least two religions and theist Buddhists have only one, what could be the reasoning?

Easily, all religions believe in somethings and not other things. The lack of belief does not put you in an exclusive club above others where you lob the word religion like stones at others who believe differently.

So then according to your logic Theism also must be a religion.

 

[DavidFirth]

I know most atheists do not agree but I do consider atheism to be a religion. It is the faith that no god exists.

 

[Jumi]

I know most atheists do not agree but I do consider atheism to be a religion. It is the faith that no god exists.

Theists will also disagree with this, if they're familiar with atheism. Also, atheism isn't belief that God doesn't exist. That's only strong atheism. Weak atheism is lack of belief in any gods. Also being anti-religion isn't part of the definition of atheism.

 

[Sunstone]

I know most atheists do not agree but I do consider atheism to be a religion. It is the faith that no god exists.

All it takes to make a religion is faith? By that reasoning, a child's belief in Santa Claus is a religion.

 

[DavidFirth]

Theists will also disagree with this, if they're familiar with atheism. Also, atheism isn't belief that God doesn't exist. That's only strong atheism. Weak atheism is lack of belief in any gods. Also being anti-religion isn't part of the definition of atheism.

All it takes to make a religion is faith? By that reasoning, a child's belief in Santa Claus is a religion.

If you disagree, it is your right.

 

[Sunstone]

Shocking how many people apparently have never taken a look at all that goes into making something a religion. At least, I'd be shocked if I weren't all too familiar with the fact our noble and esteemed species of fur-challenged super-apes is all too often oblivious to the obvious. Seems to be human nature.

 

[Jumi]

Shocking how many people apparently have never taken a look at all that goes into making something a religion. At least, I'd be shocked if I weren't all too familiar with the fact our noble and esteemed species of fur-challenged super-apes is all too often oblivious to the obvious.

I think many would change their minds, when asked if atheists should receive same religious protections and tax exemptions as things that are actually religions.

 

[DavidFirth]

I think many would change their minds, when asked if atheists should receive same religious protections and tax exemptions as things that are actually religions.

I would have no problem with it. The only problem is that atheists would have to claim atheism IS a religion in order to get those tax exemptions.

If Congress wants to give you an exemption for whatever reason that is your business, not mine unless I also qualify for the same exemption.