Atheism is just another religion

[shunyadragon]

So what you are saying is that atheism could potentially be a religion for someone if someone formed a belief system around it, but that as a whole just not believing one thing isn't enough to be a religion? Since you didn't define it, what I thought you were saying is that if someone doesn't believe in god, they have a religion.

Yes, If some one doesn't believe in god(s) they may be described as having a religion. They do not necessarily have to form an entire belief system around it. It may be called a belief system or religion in and of itself.

I often see the same problem with some Theists who claim that their belief is not a religion or described oddly as unreligious, and still consider themselves Christian as someone did on RF. Jehovah Witnesses also make this contradictory claim that they are not a religion or a church.

 

[shunyadragon]

It's the demand for conformity, that many make their mission to do, that makes many atheists religious atheists.

my atheism is simply an observation I find to be true in nature.

I like non creationist ID though. so I don't fit in with most atheists because I see intelligence in nature, something far less than god.

As with any belief system or religion 'fitting in' individually is not a necessary requirement for a belief system or religion. If this were the case there would be no such thing as a religion or belief system regardless of what people believe.

 

[Twilight Hue]

From: Atheism and Secularism

"3. Atheist Religions
#bahamas #buddhism #confucianism #france #scientology #taoism #theism

There are some religions that are atheist. This means, there are some religions that specifically hold that there are no gods. Most other atheists are not members of any religions and don't share the beliefs of those religions."

4.2. Is Atheism a Religion to Some People?

Atheism is the non-belief in god(s). Some people add to this simple definition and argue that atheists are actually religious by default16,17. One argument is that in order to be an atheist you have to "deny God" and by doing so, you admit that God exists. Others say that "not believing in god" is automatically a "religious" belief and that it requires "faith"16. These positions are obviously daft - most people also deny that unicorns and tooth fairies exist. But this doesn't mean that such people are members of an a-unicornist religion. They are, for various reasons, non-believers. Disbelief does not automatically equate to a religious disbelief. One articulate argument that some atheists are religious in nature was best vocalized by William James:"

“[The more fervent atheists] have often enough shown a temper which, psychologically considered, is indistinguishable from religious zeal.”

"The Varieties of Religious Experience"
William James (1902) [Book Review]18

But however fervent someone is about things that don't exist, it doesn't make it religious. Take football. The psychology and emotionality of followers can be very intense, and we can easily imagine William James say the same thing about football fans as he does about some atheists. The truth is that 'zeal' is a trait that can be applied to any human activity where there is enough enthusiasm. You might as well say that 'religious people, psychologically speaking, have often shown a temper which is indistinguishable from football fanaticism'. In other words, just because there is a strong drive, it doesn't make it a religious drive. This is the case with the most 'fervent' atheists: their zeal does not make them religious.

The following page summarizes the main arguments that atheism is not, de facto, a religion:

• "Is Atheism a Religion?" by Vexen Crabtree (2016)"

I think religious can come about without a belief in Gods as a requirement or center of attention, but atheism itself is not a religion. The term itself is only a response to theism hence its coining as the term atheism.

For all practical intents and purposes the term atheism is to serve as a reminder to people that there was no theism when you came into life hence it's the natural manner by which you came into this world.

Atheism simply means no God. Pretty much the bottom line.

 

[Jumi]

Yes, If some one doesn't believe in god(s) they may be described as having a religion. They do not necessarily have to form an entire belief system around it. It may be called a belief system or religion in and of itself.

That still makes no sense and contradicts the sources you posted. Since according to you nothing really is required for a religion to be called a religion, shouldn't you then be completely comfortable with us being of the Theistic religion? We haven't necessarily formed belief systems around it, but we have as much in common as we would have if we were atheists.

I often see the same problem with some Theists who claim that their belief is not a religion or described oddly as unreligious, and still consider themselves Christian as someone did on RF. Jehovah Witnesses also make this contradictory claim that they are not a religion or a church.

Oddly enough, they have some unifying characteristics besides being just theists that match characteristics of real religions. Me as a kid realizing I don't believe what the adults are saying about god, compared to someone like Stephen Hawking or a Buddhist atheist... not so much. Unless they too liked lego and bikes.

 

[Jumi]

I'm also curious if according to the folks who have this belief about atheism being a religion, undivided during thousands of years.... did I stop being religious the moment I became a monotheist?

 

[Father Heathen]

I would think if I truely didn't believe in God there wouldn't be any room in all of my awareness and understanding for God and anytime I bumped up against that concept I'd have to go, What?

Then you must struggle with fictional stories and characters in books, movies, television, etc.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, If some one doesn't believe in god(s) they may be described as having a religion. They do not necessarily have to form an entire belief system around it. It may be called a belief system or religion in and of itself.

I often see the same problem with some Theists who claim that their belief is not a religion or described oddly as unreligious, and still consider themselves Christian as someone did on RF. Jehovah Witnesses also make this contradictory claim that they are not a religion or a church.

Don't you think a religion is supposed to have a little more meat in its bones?

 

[shunyadragon]

Don't you think a religion is supposed to have a little more meat in its bones?

I do not make that judgement. It could be only bones.

 

[LuisDantas]

I do not make that judgement. It could be only bones.

Personally, I don't see the point of calling even the most superficial and inconsequential points of belief religions.

 

[shunyadragon]

Personally, I don't see the point of calling even the most superficial and inconsequential points of belief religions.

Atheism is not a superficial and inconsequential point of a belief system. Without the bones nothing stands.

 

[Sunstone]

I do not make that judgement. It could be only bones.

Yeah, because there isn't a difference between an elephant and an elephant skeleton.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yeah, because there isn't a difference between an elephant and an elephant skeleton.

Without the skeleton there will be no elephant.

 

[Sunstone]

Without the skeleton there will be no elephant.

Without much more than just the skeleton, there would be no elephant either.

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheism is not a superficial and inconsequential point of a belief system. Without the bones nothing stands.

I beg to differ. Atheism is about as inconsequential and superficial a stance as they come.

A part of me remains surprised that it was even named.

 

[Jumi]

I do not make that judgement. It could be only bones.

Actually you are making the judgment, unless in your religion it's a matter of faith that atheism is called a religion. That's why people are asking you questions and even the links you provide contradict you on what you're saying about atheism as a religion.

 

[Augustus]

I beg to differ. Atheism is about as inconsequential and superficial a superficial a stance as they come.

I can agree that atheism is not necessarily consequential, when someone adopts the epistemic position that gods are figments of human imagination (as at least some atheists do) why do you still consider this to be inconsequential and superficial?

A part of me remains surprised that it was even named.

To me this seems like a strange attempt to remove a concept far out of a social and historical context and force it into an ivory tower of purely hypothetical abstraction.

What gives you even the tiniest bit of surprise that it was named?

 

[Jumi]

I can agree that atheism is not necessarily consequential, when someone adopts the epistemic position that gods are figments of human imagination (as at least some atheists do) why do you still consider this to be inconsequential and superficial?

What some do is not enough to make the thing into a religion.

 

[Augustus]

Yes, If some one doesn't believe in god(s) they may be described as having a religion. They do not necessarily have to form an entire belief system around it. It may be called a belief system or religion in and of itself.

Religion, imo, is a (transcendent) ideology that gives meaning to the world and also comprises some ritual aspects.

Atheism on its own is simply a belief and calling it a religion really can't be rationally supported by any remotely consistent usage of the term religion.

Most atheists incorporate their atheism into a broader ideology though, and this broader worldview is the psychological equivalent of a religion (I prefer to think of religions as ideologies rather than ideologies as religions though as it can slightly reduce quibbling). We are driven by narratives/myths and being an atheist doesn't negate this.

Describing a single belief as a religion makes little sense though.

 

[Augustus]

What some do is not enough to make the thing into a religion.

My previous post deals with this.

Do you agree that atheism can be a significant component in a broader worldview that acts as the functional equivalent of the ideological component of a religion?

[ignoring atheistic religions]

 

[Ingledsva]

From: Atheism and Secularism

"3. Atheist Religions
#bahamas #buddhism #confucianism #france #scientology #taoism #theism

There are some religions that are atheist. This means, there are some religions that specifically hold that there are no gods. Most other atheists are not members of any religions and don't share the beliefs of those religions."

4.2. Is Atheism a Religion to Some People?

Atheism is the non-belief in god(s). Some people add to this simple definition and argue that atheists are actually religious by default16,17. One argument is that in order to be an atheist you have to "deny God" and by doing so, you admit that God exists. Others say that "not believing in god" is automatically a "religious" belief and that it requires "faith"16. These positions are obviously daft - most people also deny that unicorns and tooth fairies exist. But this doesn't mean that such people are members of an a-unicornist religion. They are, for various reasons, non-believers. Disbelief does not automatically equate to a religious disbelief. One articulate argument that some atheists are religious in nature was best vocalized by William James:"

“[The more fervent atheists] have often enough shown a temper which, psychologically considered, is indistinguishable from religious zeal.”

"The Varieties of Religious Experience"
William James (1902) [Book Review]18

But however fervent someone is about things that don't exist, it doesn't make it religious. Take football. The psychology and emotionality of followers can be very intense, and we can easily imagine William James say the same thing about football fans as he does about some atheists. The truth is that 'zeal' is a trait that can be applied to any human activity where there is enough enthusiasm. You might as well say that 'religious people, psychologically speaking, have often shown a temper which is indistinguishable from football fanaticism'. In other words, just because there is a strong drive, it doesn't make it a religious drive. This is the case with the most 'fervent' atheists: their zeal does not make them religious.

The following page summarizes the main arguments that atheism is not, de facto, a religion:

• "Is Atheism a Religion?" by Vexen Crabtree (2016)"

A Religious zeal about something - does not make a religion.

You missed this in what YOU posted - "You might as well say that 'religious people, psychologically speaking, have often shown a temper which is indistinguishable from football fanaticism'. In other words, just because there is a strong drive, it doesn't make it a religious drive. This is the case with the most 'fervent' atheists: their zeal does not make them religious.

Atheist comes from the ancient Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without gods".

The so-called Atheist religions are not actually religions, they are - Schools of Philosophy - that have been labeled as religions.

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