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Atheism is not a default position

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
All things fall into two sets: Things that have a belief in God and things that do not have a belief in God.
Nobody capable of using the word "god" lacks/does not have a belief in god (whether that belief is "god doesn't exist", "god exists", "gods exists", "I don't know", etc.). It is (again) physiologically impossible to be able to use the word "god" and not possess a belief about "god".
it's merely a descriptive term for all things without a belief in God.
Which cannot describe any self-identified atheist or (more broadly) those capable of using words like "god", "deity", "dieu", "Gott", etc.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Let us all then agree that the definition of atheist is a person who is not a theist and doesn't believe gods exist. It will only take a minute.
Let us agree that the definition of an atheist is someone who believes no god exists. It will take no longer and doesn't involve the kind of ambiguities or problems with your proposal. Of course, I'm not suggesting we actually agree on some "real" definition for the sake of expediency, as it takes no time at all to agree on an even clearer definition of atheism such as "an atheist is a rational number" or "an atheist is a member of any set which is not the empty/null set" or similarly ridiculous definitions.
The idea is not to argue that the word itself (which is, after all, English, and therefore obviously irrelevant to millions of individuals who don't speak English but do have similar terms in their languages) has some set definition, but
1) The paradoxes and problems inherent in defining ANY default epistemic position, as to the extent such a thing is possible the default is complete ignorance.
2) The fundamental disparity between the beliefs of ALL self-identified atheists and infants
3) The worthlessness of a concept that describes those who "lack a belief" (which is why we don't have words to describe such positions: there is no word for "lack a belief in unicorns", "lack a belief in fairies", "lack a belief in string theory", "lack a belief in the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics", "lack a belief in the axiom of choice", etc.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No-one capable of using the word lacks an understanding of the word's meaning. Belief is another matter.
Nobody capable of using the word "god" lacks/does not have a belief in god (whether that belief is "god doesn't exist", "god exists", "gods exists", "I don't know", etc.). It is (again) physiologically impossible to be able to use the word "god" and not possess a belief about "god".
I don't see your point. How "God" is conceptualised doesn't impact atheism. Doesn't atheism cover pretty much all concepts of God?

Which cannot describe any self-identified atheist or (more broadly) those capable of using words like "god", "deity", "dieu", "Gott", etc.
Exactly!
An atheist need not be one capable of speech or of self-identification. An atheist could be a kumquat.
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
god = an intelligent, immortal entity that has a degree of control over all things in the universe and more control over at least one specific aspect of the universe than any mortal thing.

That work for you?
Absolutely. Then yes, I definitely relate to that. I don't beleive in em'.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Many forms of pantheism, Shinto, Taoism, Confuscianism, many incarnations of Buddism and Hinduism, many forms of paganism, panentheism, deism - just off the top of my head.
The definition that I proposed?

Pretty sure it covers all excepting some pantheism religions wherein most acknowledge for instance the sun exists but disagree that an inanimate objects are gods.

But I am curious as to how it doesn't fit.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No-one capable of using the word lacks an understanding of the word's meaning. Belief is another matter.
It is impossible to possess such an understanding and have no belief. I've seen this in functional neuroimaging studies beginning with one of the first I ever worked on.

I don't see your point. How "God" is conceptualised doesn't impact atheism. Doesn't atheism cover pretty much all concepts of God?
Not if infants are atheists or if atheism is defined as the "lack/absence of belief" in/with respect to god.

An atheist could be a kumquat.
Not according to any standard usage, but definitely a usage which makes the term "atheist" a meaningless, pointless, irrelevant one.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Some of these would be described as atheistic beliefs, though, Bunyip, and ideas of impersonal fields of consciousness aren't what most people would think of as God.
Whatever the other qualities, Gods are always personages.

Dammit -- now you've got me proposing definitive traits.:oops:
 
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Bunyip

pro scapegoat
The definition that I proposed?

Pretty sure it covers all excepting some pantheism religions wherein most acknowledge for instance the sun exists but disagree that an inanimate objects are gods.

But I am curious as to how it doesn't fit.
How what doesn't fit?
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Some of these would be described as atheistic beliefs, though, and ideas of impersonal fields of consciousness aren't what most people would think of as God.
Whatever the other qualities, Gods are always personages.

Dammit -- now you've got me proposing definitive traits.:oops:
I like you already.

LOL
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is impossible to possess such an understanding and have no belief. I've seen this in functional neuroimaging studies beginning with one of the first I ever worked on.
You're still working with a conscious entity. Image a rock and see what you get.

Not according to any standard usage, but definitely a usage which makes the term "atheist" a meaningless, pointless, irrelevant one.
It's a very broad term, I agree, but it still, by definition, comprises applications where it would make no sense.
It's up to the user to use a term productively.
 
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