• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Atheism is not a default position

Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
How is this relevant to the conversation. We aren't making claims on how God will judge individuals based on their faith or lack thereof. That has nothing to do with this thread whatsoever.
Click to expand...
It has everything to do with what goes on in your head.
and you think God and heaven isn't watching?
Nothing Greater to oversee this thing called Man?
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
I can see this thread as we stand before God and heaven......
and for those who 'don't believe'.......try hard.
Click to expand...
Why would they "try hard" if they have not been convinced that there is a reason to? Or, do you make the erroneous assumption that everyone really does believe in God, and they simply don't care?
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Ouroboros said:
What is the definition of "god"?
Click to expand...
An intelligent, supernatural agency responsible for the creation or maintenance of the Universe and/or some aspect of the Universe.

Ouroboros said:
Or are you just saying that it's the word itself, not its meaning that's important? The atheist is disbelieving the word "god" or "gods" but not what the term stands for? It's not the concepts that theism is about, but just the use of the word? If a person calls his pet-rock "God", then he's a theist? Which is it? Is it just the use of a word "God" or is it the idea or concepts about "god" that these labels are referring to? If it's just the word, then what about Goth, gud, Elohim, and all those other words that represents same or similar concepts? You must agree that it's not the word "god" that's in question but the concepts.
Click to expand...
You just completely spun off on a tangent there. They never said anything about the belief in the "word", they said "belief in any God".

Ouroboros said:
So do you have a list of uniform, non-negotiable definitions of these concepts? The concepts that all theists united agree on unquestionable.
Click to expand...
See above.

Ouroboros said:
Oh, I have an idea. Even theists are implicit atheists when they're sleeping or in coma.
Click to expand...
Wrong. Beliefs don't disappear just because you're unconscious. Beliefs are mental states, and are included among both conscious and subconscious mental states. Being incapable of discerning a sleeping person's mental state on a particular subject doesn't mean they don't have a mental state on a particular subject.

Ouroboros said:
Another thing, in which category would you place ignosticists?
Click to expand...
I would say that, like deism, it varies based on the individual's position. An ignostic can be either a theist or atheist depending on whether or not they accept the claim that God exists.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
It has everything to do with what goes on in your head.
and you think God and heaven isn't watching?
Nothing Greater to oversee this thing called Man?
Click to expand...
What I believe doesn't matter, as I have been convinced enough to believe in God. But, I can certainly understand why many don't feel the same way. I don't think God would judge them for the shortcomings of those who claimed to speak in his name. They didn't do a very good job of convincing, imho. My faith grew out of my distrust for those who claim to speak for God.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
Why would they "try hard" if they have not been convinced that there is a reason to? Or, do you make the erroneous assumption that everyone really does believe in God, and they simply don't care?
Click to expand...

What drag this and any other conversation to ground and twist your arm with it?
Really?
 
A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Ouroboros said:
Over 10 years ago, when I became an atheist, non-theism was the umbrella term and atheism was a sub-term.
Click to expand...
Non-theism was adopted as a term instead of atheism to avoid the negative view many theists had that all atheists were immoral God-hating people.
Put it this way, my impression of the use of the terms was that non-theism was the negation of theism. Atheism was the strong position of non-theism
Click to expand...
Same today. Non-theism is weak atheism and the other is strong atheism today.
But being "with" theism is quite vague as well. Exactly what is that "God" the theists believe in. It has to be one all-inclusive, non-reductive, coherent, and cohesive definition. From that, we shall then start putting other labels and categories into the umbrella terms "theism" v "atheism".
Click to expand...
I don't see why a person would have to give "one all-inclusive, non-reductive, coherent, and cohesive definition" of a car so you would understand what he means when he says "I hate cars".
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
leibowde84 said:
What I believe doesn't matter, as I have been convinced enough to believe in God. But, I can certainly understand why many don't feel the same way. I don't think God would judge them for the shortcomings of those who claimed to speak in his name. They didn't do a very good job of convincing, imho. My faith grew out of my distrust for those who claim to speak for God.
Click to expand...

OOOOOps!

It is written...that you are neither hot nor cold I will spit you out!
(as in rejection by God Himself)

and I think that stands to reason.
Why allow a bunch nonbelievers into the peace of heaven?
Denial comes in many levels...but if you end up outside the Door........
did it matter the level of denial?

and yeah.....there are many who do good things even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

but would you point your finger at the preacher?...I am without God! because you were not convincing enough!
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
OOOOOps!

It is written...that you are neither hot nor cold I will spit you out!
(as in rejection by God Himself)

and I think that stands to reason.
Why allow a bunch nonbelievers into the peace of heaven?
Denial comes in many levels...but if you end up outside the Door........
did it matter the level of denial?

and yeah.....there are many who do good things even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

but would you point your finger at the preacher?...I am without God! because you were not convincing enough!
Click to expand...
Why would God punish them if they aren't familiar with the concept of "God" or have not been introduced to scripture?
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
atanu said:
Not actually. It is about what or how people colour what they see, especially when there is no capability of cognition or the capability is veiled by ignorance.

How is Alice saying in darkness that there is a chair? Is it her guess, or she hit a chair, or she is privy to some more info? Further, there may be more than one chair in the room. The point is that both Joe and Alice are in ignorance, and we can neither pronounce that they possess truth nor can we pronounce that they lack truth. They simply do not have what it takes to arrive at truth (or untruth).
Click to expand...

That is not what I asked. Joe says there is (at least one) chair, Alice says there is no chair. None of them can see, neither provide any evidence, or lack thereof, that there is any chair. They are just guessing.

Nevertheless, I think that the following proposition is always true

P) either Joe or Alice are right, even if they cannot see whether there is a chair or not

Because no matter whether they see a chair or not, when the room is illuminated, one of the two was right and, therefore, P always holds, even in the darkness.

Ciao

- viole
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Thief said:
OOOOOps!

It is written...that you are neither hot nor cold I will spit you out!
(as in rejection by God Himself)

and I think that stands to reason.
Why allow a bunch nonbelievers into the peace of heaven?
Denial comes in many levels...but if you end up outside the Door........
did it matter the level of denial?

and yeah.....there are many who do good things even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

but would you point your finger at the preacher?...I am without God! because you were not convincing enough!
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that any belief that scripture is an accurate portrayal of God's will is based on speculation and faith. I have that faith (to some degree), and you do as well. But, you have to be reasonable enough to understand that it isn't necessarily a plausible position for everyone to hold. Trying to use scripture to argue theology with someone who does not give scripture any credence doesn't do any good. It has to be established why that person should belief scripture to be valid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top