Atheism is not a default position

[leibowde84]

Maybe. Which one would you prefer? But, I'm interested in knowing how belief in God is maintained during deep sleep as well.

I'm not sure, but why would it matter?

 

[viole]

Not at all. You


Not at all. You have full knowledge that the coin has a head side and a tail side.

So, do we agree that even though Joe says there is at least a chair he is either wrong or right, since he has full knowledge that either there is at least a chair or none at all?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm not sure, but why would it matter?

Do you have the state of mind of belief during night? I'm just curious of your views.

 

[leibowde84]

Do you have the state of mind of belief during night? I'm just curious of your views.

When I dream I do. Other than that, I would have no way of knowing. Even with my dreams, I don't remember all of them.

 

[atanu]

So, do we agree that even though Joe says there is at least a chair he is either wrong or right, since he has full knowledge that either there is at least a chair or none at all?
Ciao
- viole

Yes nearly. Same as tossing a coin and predicting "Either a head or a tail". But there may be a coin without any head or tail.

 

[viole]

Yes nearly. Same as tossing a coin and predicting "Either a head or a tail". But there may be a coin without any head or tail.

Nearly?

If you agree,then it makes no sense to say that Joe is neither right or wrong. He is, indeed, either right or wrong. Don't you think?

Please consider that I cannot imagine a room that has neither at least a chair nor no chair at all. Can you?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Ouroboros]

When I dream I do.

Wait. It was more specific than just having some semi-conscious state. It's more specific, are you believing in God when you're dreaming?

Other than that, I would have no way of knowing. Even with my dreams, I don't remember all of them.

Well, since not knowing = implicit non-belief. You would then admit that you are implicitly don't believe that you do. And if you don't have a belief in God in deep sleep, then you have to admit you're an implicit atheist during that time. I'm sure you'll disagree on this.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes nearly. Same as tossing a coin and predicting "Either a head or a tail". But there may be a coin without any head or tail.

This is nonsensical though. You are changing the example to better suit your argument. How can a chair have neither a chair in it nor no chair in it? Something is either "true", as it lines up with reality, or it is "false" as in it does not line up with reality. The speaker's knowledge is irrelevant because the statement is either true or false despite it.

 

[leibowde84]

Wait. It was more specific than just having some semi-conscious state. It's more specific, are you believing in God when you're dreaming?


Well, since not knowing = implicit non-belief. You would then admit that you are implicitly don't believe that you do. And if you don't have a belief in God in deep sleep, then you have to admit you're an implicit atheist during that time. I'm sure you'll disagree on this.

1. Yes. In all of the dreams I can remember after waking up, my belief in God is present.
2. I am not able to say what I believe during dreams or sleep that I can't remember at all. I would assume that at any time I am conscious, my belief in God is present.

Why does any of this matter at all? Even if, when my brain is off or whatever, I am, implicitly, an atheist, I don't see why that causes any issue. When would that come up with any real importance?

 

[ArtieE]

once again, you are dictating what is the "proper" words.

No I'm just telling you what the proper words are after reading tons of definitions and explanations and understanding them.

I disagree with your interpretation, because other words, not requiring modifiers, already exist, existed long before anyone started this implicit/explicit and weak/strong modifiers for atheism (which appears to be in the 1970s, from what I can tell). To wit: Theist is perfectly fine for someone who believes.

Theist is perfectly fine for someone who believes god(s) exist.

Atheist is perfectly fine for someone who actively believes that there is no god/gods.

No, strong atheist is perfectly fine for someone who actively believes that there are no gods.

Agnostic is perfectly fine for one who is neither theist or atheist.

Not at all. Agnostic is perfectly fine for someone who doesn't know whether gods exist or don't exist. You can have both agnostic theists and agnostic atheists.

 

[atanu]

Nearly?

If you agree,then it makes no sense to say that Joe is neither right or wrong. He is, indeed, either right or wrong. Don't you think?

Please consider that I cannot imagine a room that has neither at least a chair nor no chair at all. Can you?

Ciao

- viole

Now suppose that Joe has never seen or heard of a chair. He has no conception. Being in dark means that. isn't it? A baby is in this position.

 

[viole]

Now suppose that Joe has never seen or heard of a chair. He has no conception.

we will address that later. Suppose that he does.

Do we agree that under this premise he is either right or wrong?

Ciao

- viole

 

[atanu]

we will address that later. Suppose that he does.

- viole

Then the metaphor of a dark room is not applicable. You have already introduced some light. Please do not change the reference point that we are talking of beliefs of babies. Also do not kindly stretch the metaphor beyond what it is intended for.

A baby has no conception regarding deity.

 

[Ouroboros]

Why does any of this matter at all? Even if, when my brain is off or whatever, I am, implicitly, an atheist, I don't see why that causes any issue. When would that come up with any real importance?

Never mind then.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yes nearly. Same as tossing a coin and predicting "Either a head or a tail". But there may be a coin without any head or tail.

Or rather, there's no coin at all. Which side comes up from a coin that hasn't been tossed yet?

 

[`mud]

sometimes a coin lands on it's edge !
~
'mud

 

[Jumi]

So...everyone goes to heaven?........

Picture Jesus, Judas and Hitler at the same Table...sharing bread and a sauce bowl....
looking each other.....in the eye....

oh hell.....

Well that's how Christianity was taught where I live, belief not actions. If you have personal relationship with Jesus you're going to heaven no matter what you do was how it was taught. It made zero sense to me of course, why have a punishment if it's not for anything other than lacking belief.

 

[ArtieE]

A baby has no conception regarding deity.

Correct. Which is why a baby neither believes gods exist nor believes gods don't exist and is therefore automatically a weak implicit atheist.

 

[jonathan180iq]

But there may be a coin without any head or tail.

Coins without heads or tails are called marbles... And we aren't talking about marbles. We are talking about coins, and coins have heads and tails.

Just like a room either has a chair in it or it does not.
There is no situation in reality where a room can both have a chair and not have a chair.

 

[Willamena]

Even if, when my brain is off or whatever, I am, implicitly, an atheist, I don't see why that causes any issue. When would that come up with any real importance?

Let's posit a man that is the only person in the whole wide world, all others having suddenly vanished. And he's never heard of god. Who is there to imply his atheism for him?