Atheism is not a default position

[leibowde84]

and without proof.....no one has anything else to over....including you.

That is an argument from ignorance. The absence of proof for an alternative does not support the argument that God must be the cause. That is merely using a logical fallacy. Your claim that God is the creator must be supported on its own by seperate evidence. I don't think that is possible.

 

[ArtieE]

Cause and effect. When you see a clock, a car, a house, you see a intelligent effect. Some humans manipulated some matter in a intelligent way and constructed those things I wrote. The objects: car, house, clock, etc, are effect from an intelligent agent: man, the cause who in fact is an co-creator. The primary creator, cause of all other things, including matter manipulated by human, human, animals, etc, it's an intelligent being. An intelligent effect must have an intelligent cause. That's all, very simple.

And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?

 

[Thief]

That is an argument from ignorance. The absence of proof for an alternative does not support the argument that God must be the cause. That is merely using a logical fallacy. Your claim that God is the creator must be supported on its own by seperate evidence. I don't think that is possible.

at this point I think you and several others are just jockeying for last post.

Someone had to be First.
I call Him the Almighty....AND Creator.

evidence over your head....and beneath your feet.

 

[marcosmasliaev]

And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?

If You look at the effect, all in the universe, you'll find the cause.

 

[ArtieE]

If You look at the effect, all in the universe, you'll find the cause.

That is not an answer to my questions. Try again. "And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?"

 

[Willamena]

Nay....
If you lack the consideration....you cannot believe.

So, babies and rocks...
I disagree.

There are a lot of well trained and highly intelligent people, round about.
Some don't believe.
They made a choice.

There are a lot of uneducated and barely functional people, round about.
Some don't believe.
They made a choice.

and some.....are soooooo busy.....they don't have time to consider.
They don't believe.
but that is a choice.

There are some who are down and depressed.
They have no comfort....and nothing to believe in.
but that too is a choice.

If you have any ability....you can then consider.
and then choose.

Let's toss the baby in the air one more time......catch!

Unable to believe.....and they are ignorant.....
but if you fail to catch the baby and it dies.....
It goes back to God.....as a default position!

 

[ArtieE]

Someone had to be First.

Why? Why was there a first?

I call Him the Almighty....AND Creator.

What is the reason for this "creators" existence?

 

[leibowde84]

Cause and effect. When you see a clock, a car, a house, you see a intelligent effect. Some humans manipulated some matter in a intelligent way and constructed those things I wrote. The objects: car, house, clock, etc, are effect from an intelligent agent: man, the cause who in fact is an co-creator. The primary creator, cause of all other things, including matter manipulated by human, human, animals, etc, it's an intelligent being. An intelligent effect must have an intelligent cause. That's all, very simple.

But, we have seen how life-forms evolved from simpler life forms via the process of evolution/natural selection. So, are you saying that the most basic lifeforms were "designed", or do you not believe in evolution?

 

[marcosmasliaev]

That is not an answer to my questions. Try again. "And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?"

Take a look at citation 1200, there's more about it.

 

[ArtieE]

Take a look at citation 1200, there's more about it.

That is not an answer to my questions. Try again. "And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?"

 

[leibowde84]

at this point I think you and several others are just jockeying for last post.

Someone had to be First.
I call Him the Almighty....AND Creator.

evidence over your head....and beneath your feet.

Why did "someone" and not "something" have to be first? If you are claiming that the cosmos is not eternal, why would you assume that what came before it was? Even if all of these things are true, why do you assume that it is God and not simply something we are unaware of yet, as our scientific understanding is still immensely limited.

 

[marcosmasliaev]

But, we have seen how life-forms evolved from simpler life forms via the process of evolution/natural selection. So, are you saying that the most basic lifeforms were "designed", or do you not believe in evolution?

I believe that spirits are initial creation, these minor beings passes from mineral to vegetable to animal to human to superior forms. Like different stages from simple to higher lifeforms. From "atom" to archangel". Evolution, I think we are spirits having an human experience, we left our anterior and inferior physical vehicles begins as we gain experience and merit.

 

[marcosmasliaev]

That is not an answer to my questions. Try again. "And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?"

I have no more to say. If you don't understand what I wrote try to think more or discard it.

 

[atanu]

Then the metaphor of a dark room is not applicable. You have already introduced some light. Please do not change the reference point that we are talking of beliefs of babies. Also do not kindly stretch the metaphor beyond what it is intended for.

A baby has no conception regarding deity.

Hold your horses.

Are you telling me that after having illuminated the room, it is till uncertain whether there is a chair or not? Must be, if Joe and Alice do not know what a chair is. They have to know what a chair is before we can resolve the issue by sheding light in the room.

If not, who can say whether there is, indeded, a chair in the room?

Ciao

- viole

In the quote above, I have said:

Then the metaphor of a dark room is not applicable. You have already introduced some light. Please do not change the reference point that we are talking of beliefs of babies. Also do not kindly stretch the metaphor beyond what it is intended for.
A baby has no conception regarding deity.

 

[Willamena]

And obviously when you have dismissed or refused a belief you have an absence of it. "I refuse and dismiss the belief that god(s) exist so I have an absence of the belief that god(s) exist".

How is that obvious? When the school dismisses the children and they go home, they are absent from school. But where does information go when you dismiss it? Do you suddenly unlearn it?

To refuse to believe has no effect on that bit of information that you are refusing (the belief). It's not absent.

 

[Thief]

Why? Why was there a first?What is the reason for this "creators" existence?

A simple line of thought called regression......Someone had to be First.
self explanatory really...

 

[Willamena]

That is not an answer to my questions. Try again. "And why does this intelligent being exist? What is the reason for its existence?"

If reasons exist, they are part of the "all the universe" that this "god" is the flip-side of.

There can be no reason for its being that is not on "this" side.

Or so I understand the argument.

 

[Thief]

So, babies and rocks...
I disagree.

and the rest of the post you won't comment on?

and to continue even further from previous post...which is greater?
the creation of rock?....or the creation of Man?

 

[Willamena]

and the rest of the post you won't comment on?

and to continue even further from previous post...which is greater?
the creation of rock?....or the creation of Man?

I have no response to the rest of the post, yes.

How can either be "greater"? They are both creation.

 

[ArtieE]

A simple line of thought called regression......Someone had to be First.
self explanatory really...

Why did someone have to be first? Why did someone have to exist at all? What is the reason someone exists in the first place?