Atheism is not anti-theism. Anti-theism is not atheism.

[izzy88]

I wonder....
Would "anti-theism" be applicable to not only opposition to all
religions, but also to some theists opposing other religions?

No. If you're a theist, you are not an anti-theist - by definition.

That makes as little sense as the classic "we're both atheists, I'm just an atheist with respect to one more god than you are!" line. It's a misunderstanding of what the terms actually mean.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe.

I asked cuz I'm thinking of believers I've run into who
would ban other religions...an anti-theism of sorts.

 

[Jim]

I asked cuz I'm thinking of believers I've run into who
would ban other religions...an anti-theism of sorts.

Some of the people who argue and protest against Christian Gods believe in other gods. Sometimes they might call Christians theists, without thinking of themselves as theists. In that context they would be anti-theists, even though other people might call them theists.

I think that most people arguing and protesting against against God beliefs are only thinking of Christian Gods, and don’t care about other gods.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. If you're a theist, you are not an anti-theist - by definition.

No, people can have different attitudes and beliefs toward different gods.

Every person is a weak atheist toward the vast majority of gods humanity has ever believed in.

That makes as little sense as the classic "we're both atheists, I'm just an atheist with respect to one more god than you are!" line. It's a misunderstanding of what the terms actually mean.

That's actually a call to empathy and understanding for theists. Seems it didn't work for you.

 

[izzy88]

No, people can have different attitudes and beliefs toward different gods.

Every person is a weak atheist toward the vast majority of gods humanity has ever believed in.

That's actually a call to empathy and understanding for theists. Seems it didn't work for you.

The categories of atheist and theist are mutually exclusive; what you're saying is illogical. There's really nothing to discuss, you're objectively incorrect.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The categories of atheist and theist are mutually exclusive; what you're saying is illogical. There's really nothing to discuss, you're objectively incorrect.

Theists aren't atheists, no. Despite this, an atheist and a theist will often have the same attitude and beliefs about most gods.

There's nothing illogical about pointing this out. In fact, it's a call to logical consistency on the part of theists, especially monotheists.

If they had bothered to think about it a bit, they would realize that it's hypocritical for them to condemn atheists for dismissing their God without considering it "enough," even though they dismiss countless gods of other traditions without a second thought.

... or they'd realize that when they say "you can't prove a negative" or "absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" to an atheist who believes no gods exist, they're also condemning their own belief that no more than one god exists.

So that's what it is. A call to empathy and consistency instead of hypocrisy.

Edit: of course, for this to work, the theist has to be interested in empathy and understanding. This may be why you're having trouble with it.

 

[izzy88]

of course, for this to work, the theist has to be interested in empathy and understanding. This may be why you're having trouble with it.

Seriously?

Why do you do this? Why do you make what was a simple logical argument into something personal, where you insult my character despite knowing virtually nothing about me?

You were on my ignore list for a long time, and I only just decided to take you off of it, but you're immediately making me regret my decision.

 

[osgart]

I am opposed to fundamentalists who insist that I and my loved ones are eternally doomed without their God. So long as these fundamentalists stick to their own kind and don't bother anyone I am happy. They can preach and teach it. But I fight against them coming into any power over me and those I agree with, and those who are different than them.

Other then that brand of Theism I am not anti-theist.

 

[Jim]

I am opposed to fundamentalists who insist that I and my loved ones are eternally doomed without their God. So long as these fundamentalists stick to their own kind and don't bother anyone I am happy. They can preach and teach it. But I fight against them coming into any power over me and those I agree with, and those who are different than them.

Other then that brand of Theism I am not anti-theist.

What do you think about me saying that your anti-theism is not part of your atheism, not a conclusion derived from it? When people protest against people denouncing their God beliefs, calling those people “atheists,” they are misrepresenting what it means to be an atheist. Even if some or most of those people denouncing those beliefs actually are atheists, that lack of belief is not in itself the reason for their anti-theism. Would you agree with that?

 

[Jim]

My main point in the OP was that sometimes when the word “atheists” is used in the title or the OP of a thread, it is not actually about atheists. Sometimes it’s actually about people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Some of them might be atheists, but that has nothing to do with them arguing and protesting against God beliefs.

Another, separate point I was making was that some of the people who help to perpetuate that misunderstanding sometimes are atheists, for example when they use their atheist identity as a shield from criticism of their anti-theism, and to excuse themselves from substantiating their anti-theistic views.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Seriously?

Why do you do this? Why do you make what was a simple logical argument into something personal, where you insult my character despite knowing virtually nothing about me?

I match your own tone and I'm the one who's being insulting? Hmm.

At least you stopped parroting "it's illogical!" at a position that you showed through your responses that you really didn't understand.

You were on my ignore list for a long time, and I only just decided to take you off of it, but you're immediately making me regret my decision.

Interacting with you isn't exactly a treat for me, either.

 

[osgart]

What do you think about me saying that your anti-theism is not part of your atheism, not a conclusion derived from it? When people protest against people denouncing their God beliefs, calling those people “atheists,” they are misrepresenting what it means to be an atheist. Even if some or most of those people denouncing those beliefs actually are atheists, that lack of belief is not in itself the reason for their anti-theism. Would you agree with that?

My lack of belief, and my anti-theism are two separate things. Not all God's bother me. Just the one's that draw sword's against people they truly do not know.

I agree with that!

 

[Jim]

My lack of belief, and my anti-theism are two separate things. Not all God's bother me. Just the one's that draw sword's against people they truly do not know.

I agree with that!

Thank you.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

When I began my degree I decided to join the beliefs forum and what a shock I got. Atheists seem to be taking over all the forums that even remotely touch on anything spiritual.
While there were a couple of atheists who were reasonable and one could have a sensible debate with but most, they were nothing but vitriolic bullies who didn't discuss anything but constantly harangue. They were quite hateful and I began to wonder why they felt the need to be so nasty towards others who chose to believe in God, really couldn't understand it. Came to the conclusion they protested too much, maybe they were trying to convince themselves because they were afraid they might be wrong. You can call them what you like, certainly the impression of those who called themselves atheists is they did not believe in any creator/God or whatever.

 

[Valjean]

I've never experienced such atheists, but I understand that there are social media that allow mental defectives -- in their comfortable anonymity -- to bloviate, harangue and vent their anger unimpeded to everyone who will listen.
Put them on ignore and concentrate on those who are reasonable.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

It was difficult on what was an academic forum because people can emotionally bully and harangue you without obviously being rude,really did have some great discussions with some atheists who actually commented on the bullying by some of the others. However, in the end I became upset and angry so decided it was better to withdraw from the forum all together.

 

[Jim]

@Sandra Jayne This thread is a response to people starting threads stigmatizing atheists, like “Why do atheists ...?” discussing some despicable things that people do sometimes, that I think really have nothing to do with atheism or atheists. Sometimes the people who were doing it happened to be atheists, but that had nothing to do with their bad behavior. I’m thinking that dragging their atheism into a discussion about their behavior, besides unfairly stigmatizing and endangering all atheists, clouds the issue of harmful behavior and diverts attention from it, into a debate about atheism and atheists. I’m thinking that instead of “Why do atheists...?” the title of a thread like that should be “Why do people ... sometimes?”

 

[Jesuslightoftheworld]

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

I agree that anti-theism is not atheism, I believe that anti-atheism

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

I agree that anti-theism is not atheism, however, I believe that anti-atheism

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

I agree that anti-theism is not atheism, however, I believe that anti-atheism, however I believe that

Many times I’ve seen people saying “atheists” when they’re discussing people arguing and protesting against God beliefs. Many people who argue and protest against God beliefs are not atheists, and many atheists never argue or protest against God beliefs. I think that part of what helps perpetuate that misunderstanding is that sometimes people arguing and protesting against God beliefs call their own anti-theism “atheism,” and sometimes they call themselves and other people arguing and protesting against God beliefs “atheists.”

(edited to add the following)
I know that sometimes when people vilify and disparage atheists, they actually are talking about atheists, and sometimes disputes between people promoting God beliefs and other people actually are about God beliefs. That is not what I’m discussing here.
(end edit)

I agree that anti-theism is not atheism, however, I believe that anti-atheism, however I believe that atheism is anti-anytime that based on spiritualism or “super” natural. I believe that a lot of atheists are naturalists. They also tend to be evolutionists. I would like your feedback.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

@Sandra Jayne This thread is a response to people starting threads stigmatizing atheists, like “Why do atheists ...?” discussing some despicable things that people do sometimes, that I think really have nothing to do with atheism or atheists. Sometimes the people who were doing it happened to be atheists, but that had nothing to do with their bad behavior. I’m thinking that sragging their atheism into a discussion about their behavior, besides unfairly stigmatizing and endangering all atheists, clouds the issue of harmful behavior and diverts attention from it, into a debate about atheism and atheists. I’m thinking that instead of “Why do atheists...?” the title of a thread like that should be “Why do people ... sometimes?”

I'm not sure that the solution to this is to encourage people to unfairly stigmatize and endanger anti-theists specifically instead of atheists in general, as you seem to be pushing for.

 

[Jim]

I'm not sure that the solution to this is to encourage people to unfairly stigmatize and endanger anti-theists specifically instead of atheists in general, as you seem to be pushing for.

Busted! I didn’t see myself doing that. Good call. Maybe that’s what @HonestJoe was trying to say.

Wow. Ow.