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Atheism makes no sense. You cannot get something from nothing without a God.

Photonic

Ad astra!
I agree that creative intuition and imagination are very important in science, especially theoretical physics. All great scientists know this. I would say that science isn't all about materialism, but rather physicalism. I also think that sound logic, reason, and skepticism are critical for informing one's spirituality so as not to falter into purely mystical notions of reality. Science has fleshed out that fact the we are literally made of the cosmos. We are one with the Universe in that sense I believe. As Neil deGrasse Tyson puts it:

“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us.”

Science, more than anything that has ever come from the human mind, has shown us just how close we really are to the world around us.

As an astrophysicist and a cosmologist this is among the first in my mind. I am part of what is around me. My mind is not separated from that which I study, no matter how far away it may seem.
 

cablescavenger

Well-Known Member
Seriously. Something cannot come from nothing without a God. Evolution is a myth.

Hi. It is an easy mistake to make, but you got your theories mixed up. so to help, I would like go over a couple of points if you may, and I hope you take it in the honest way I intend to deliver it, with no agenda, other than to offer you some information about the theories.

Evolution is a fact, and irrefutable, it is something people must accept, and embrace, or be ignorant of, but it does not stop it from being a fact. You will hear people discussing problems with evolution, but really evolution has no issue, it is the triggers that drive evolutionary change that people are unsure of, and Darwins theories of natural selection is the prime one.

Darwin's theory is not perfect, as it has issues with genetics. This is because genetics did not exist as a science when Darwin came up with his theory, so of course he made mistakes in his assumptions, these have been acknowledged, but natural selection is still proven.

So back to your post. The big bang is the unproven theory that you are discussing, which I guess is why you say "get something from nothing".

The big bang theory, was born from data from Edwin Hubble (same guy the telescope was named after) that suggested the the universe was expanding (If you want to know how, look up "Red Shift"). That information was extrapolated and it suggested everything was travelling away from a single point, which we call the singularity.

The singularity is basically the entire universe condensed into something the size of a thimble, so we did not appear from nothing, just something very small. That might seem impossible to you, and it certainly stretches my imagination, but atoms are full of space, and not actually full of material, so the amount of visible material is not as much as you might think, and we are talking about crushing it under extreme pressure and temperatures.

The difficulty in explaining whether the big bang is true, is that we can only see so far back in time (Yes I did say that) and with the universe being so old, the earliest moments of the universe will have to be created in the mathematical arena.

You and I are made of carbon and a whole bunch of metals and minerals found all over the universe. These materials are made in the extreme heats created when stars die. We are in fact made of star dust, and it doesn't get much better than that.

If you have never looked at the planets, and their moons, and even our moon, through a telescope, I urge you to do it, not to convert you, or for any other reason than it is beautiful and fascinating. If you have never looked at Nebula and the star making factories, I urge you to do it, if you have never looked up at the stars when a meteor shower is due, I urge you to do it. These things are free to see, and are amongst the most miraculous and awe inspiring sights you are ever likely to see.

The Big Bang Theory just leads to more beautiful stuff, like what are black holes, how do stars die, how are stars born, how are solar systems built, why is our solar system conducive to life etc

With a little luck it might urge people to buy a telescope or even a good set of binoculars and start learning about the universe, in fact amateur astronomers, due to their abundance, make more discoveries each year than the professionals, and if you catch an unknown comet, you get your name on it; so you see scientists do not claim to be the leading experts at everything; sometimes they rely heavily on amateurs to point them in the right direction.

If you believe God made the planet, and the universe, that does not match my world view, and I am fine with that, but go and look, see what he did, and enjoy it.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
I agree that creative intuition and imagination are very important in science, especially theoretical physics. All great scientists know this. I would say that science isn't all about materialism, but rather physicalism. I also think that sound logic, reason, and skepticism are critical for informing one's spirituality so as not to falter into purely mystical notions of reality. Science has fleshed out that fact the we are literally made of the cosmos. We are one with the Universe in that sense I believe. Everything is one and separate at the same time. As Neil deGrasse Tyson puts it:

“Recognize that the very molecules that make up your body, the atoms that construct the molecules, are traceable to the crucibles that were once the centers of high mass stars that exploded their chemically rich guts into the galaxy, enriching pristine gas clouds with the chemistry of life. So that we are all connected to each other biologically, to the earth chemically and to the rest of the universe atomically. That’s kinda cool! That makes me smile and I actually feel quite large at the end of that. It’s not that we are better than the universe, we are part of the universe. We are in the universe and the universe is in us.”
It seems you are always coming to the same result I do but from a different angle.What is intuition in your definition and how do we recieve information from it?
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The big bang theory, was born from data from Edwin Hubble (same guy the telescope was named after) that suggested the the universe was expanding (If you want to know how, look up "Red Shift"). That information was extrapolated and it suggested everything was travelling away from a single point, which we call the singularity.

The singularity is basically the entire universe condensed into something the size of a thimble, so we did not appear from nothing, just something very small. That might seem impossible to you, and it certainly stretches my imagination, but atoms are full of space, and not actually full of material, so the amount of visible material is not as much as you might think, and we are talking about crushing it under extreme pressure and temperatures.

Personally I have no problem believing that the singularity came from another universe, e.g. from a black hole in that universe that pinched off and formed our universe. This may have been going on, and will go on for all eternity. I'm no physicist but that could be a reason why everything breaks down at the singularity. Even in our own universe, the laws of physics break down at the singularity of a black hole. So why not going backwards too?

Mind = blown. :thud:
 

Photonic

Ad astra!
Personally I have no problem believing that the singularity came from another universe, e.g. from a black hole in that universe that pinched off and formed our universe. This may have been going on, and will go on for all eternity. I'm no physicist but that could be a reason why everything breaks down at the singularity. Even in our own universe, the laws of physics break down at the singularity of a black hole. So why not going backwards too?

Mind = blown. :thud:

Time ceases to exist at the event horizon. How's that for blown? :)
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
What is intuition in your definition and how do we recieve information from it?

I think intuition randomizes the information in our minds we already possess so that we can see things in different ways and different points of view without the direct application of logic. It's a pattern matching process in other words. It involves a struggle against conceptual knowledge so that certain outdated preconceptions that are holding someone back can be overcome permitting the formation of newer more useful conceptions of understanding. In this way, intuition may assist in the acquisition and organization of new information.

If reason and logic represent the element of order in science, then intuition and imagination represents the disorder. They feed off each other to produce innovation.
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Time ceases to exist at the event horizon. How's that for blown? :)

It makes my head go

Kaboom_logo.gif
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
1. Intuition

direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
INTUITION IN-DEPTH: EINSTEIN'S INTUITION

It is independent of any reasoning process. It takes place before or after reasoning. The fact that it occurs within the same person seeking to discover the same truth means it's results cannot be independent. The results are where the interaction with logic and reason occur.
 
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cablescavenger

Well-Known Member
Personally I have no problem believing that the singularity came from another universe, e.g. from a black hole in that universe that pinched off and formed our universe. This may have been going on, and will go on for all eternity. I'm no physicist but that could be a reason why everything breaks down at the singularity. Even in our own universe, the laws of physics break down at the singularity of a black hole. So why not going backwards too?

Mind = blown. :thud:

yup, that was, and probably still is my favourite view, of the universe, there is another where it is like a pot of boiling water and we are just a bubble expanding. I am not sure if we will ever get to the bottom of it, but it won't stop us trying.:D
 
All atheists believe in evolution, because there is no God or gods according to them.

All atheists believe in evolution? Is that why Bradley Monton wrote the book:
Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design

He claims in the book, that aliens may be behind the design or, that the earth could be a designed computer simulation. As you can see not all ID proponents believe in God/or Gods, there are other alternatives.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
All atheists believe in evolution? Is that why Bradley Monton wrote the book:
Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design

He claims in the book, that aliens may be behind the design or, that the earth could be a designed computer simulation. As you can see not all ID proponents believe in God/or Gods, there are other alternatives.

yep crack pots buy into the alien theory all the time despite not having any sort of valid explanation tied into reality.


Theres plenty of pseudoscientific explanations to imagine another possibility besides what is known and not up for debate.

Its still ALL imagination and fantasy
 
Here is a piece on evolution:

[youtube]JgyTVT3dqGY[/youtube]
This is Why Every Scientist Accepts Evolution - YouTube

The title is wrong, not every scientist accepts evolution.

Take for example Charles Thaxton a Chemist who supports Intelligent Design or Mark Ludwig a physicist who supports Intelligent Design, Gary Parker a biologist who is a Young Earth Creationist. Or Kurt Wise another Young earth Creationist who is a geologist. All of them have rejected evolution, all of them scientists.

So saying "This is why every scientist accepts evolution" is dishonest becuase not every scientist accepts evolution. Why then should we watch dishonest videos who put lies as their titles?
 

tomteapack

tomteapack
All atheists believe in evolution? Is that why Bradley Monton wrote the book:
Seeking God in Science: An Atheist Defends Intelligent Design

He claims in the book, that aliens may be behind the design or, that the earth could be a designed computer simulation. As you can see not all ID proponents believe in God/or Gods, there are other alternatives.
Any ten year old gamer could create a better universe than this one, lol. No sensible gamer would waste 99.9999999999999999999999999999999 percent of the universe on nothingness, lol, unless he wanted a space game. That alone is PROOF that no god created the universe, for certainly a god would have more sense than a 10 year old human--hmm, or would he?
 
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