Such is the circle of life.
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Atheism people Argument, "I don't believe in Bigfoot." 2
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
I look around at the universe, Creation, and draw conclusions about the Creator.
The universe is beautiful and grand and vast.
It's also hostile and violent and utterly unconcerned about us humans. No matter how much we suffer, what we believe, even if the human race obliterated itself in a nuclear holocaust or got hit by a gigantic asteroid, the universe would continue on just as it has for about 15 billion years already.
Then there's the true "Problem of Evil.". Human Nature. We're born ignorant and needy and weak and fragile and fearful and stupid. We have a batch of powerful instincts that are nearly identical to those of other large apes. We have some capacity to learn better, some people have more than others, but we learn it from other people and experience. God is little more helpful than if a baby were abandoned in the forest.
The stories people invent and tell each other, featuring the character God, are certainly not valueless. But they aren't true. Humans have been creating such characters since before history. They've become very sophisticated through the centuries.
If there's a God, It isn't anything like the sentient being described, generally, by religion. It is far beyond our understanding. It may as well not exist.
The best way to learn about It is through science, at least that's the best we are capable of at this time. Religion, on the other hand, is about human beings.
Tom
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I believe one cannot look into the whole Universe with one's naked eyes. So, once observance is not with the naked eyes, please.
Right, please?
Regards
That's true.
What difference does it make? I can't see microbes or Neptune, either.
I can't see the internet with my eyes, but I can tell it exists.
Tom
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One said it was one's observance. Then how did one observe microbes or Neptune, or, is it one's faith/belief, only?
Regards
Considering how much time I have spent explaining simpler concepts(like atheism), with little results , I don't believe that I will attempt an essay explaining the word observation.
Tom
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I did not even know that there were any jaguars in the neighborhood.
Altfish
Veteran Member
That's a bit of a cop-out, isn't it.
You don't know what you don't believe in, therefore you can't not believe in it???
By the same argument, if you don't know what you don't believe in, therefore you can't believe in it, either.
In other words atheists can't believe in a god or gods....Which is basically the definition of an atheist
Altfish
Veteran Member
You draw attention to a common problem ─ what does 'believe' mean in any particular context?
'Believe' has (at least) two meanings.
The first is equivalent to 'understand'. So 'I believe the last train leaves at 2330 on Fridays' or 'I believe there is no real cryptozoon Bigfoot'. In this sense you can always put me straight with the correct timetable or a real Bigfoot, and I'll say, Thanks.
The second is equivalent to 'I unshakably hold that'. The most adamantine example I can think of is 'I believe the bible is inerrant'. Point to biblical errors of history, science, maths, to self-contradiction and incoherence, spell it out plainly and baldly: and be met with excuse, rationalization, or just a plain 'Go away!'.
I agree with Plato's Socrates: ὁ ἀνεξέταστος βίος οὐ βιωτὸς ἀνθρώπῳ 'The unexamined life is not worth living'; and so for me the real joy is in learning, changing, understanding better and more.
Others may not, of course. It's what you do, not what you say.
Interesting. I find again and again that I'm expected to know what God is, and I used to think I did, until it occurred to me that all I understood were imaginary gods, which can be anything the believer wants. I still have no concept of what a real god could be, what would imbue a being with objective existence with 'godness'.
Not in my case, but then, I'm not technically an atheist. My position is that the concept of a real god, a god with objective existence, not imaginary, is incoherent. And no one is offering non-imaginary solutions.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Only if one wants to know more about G-d the believer believes or the non-believer wants to criticize the believer's belief. Else, the believer is just expressing his belief as a peaceful human, and that is his right. Right, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I can express my belief of G-d whom I believe to be most truthful , as it is defined by G-d Himself in many a verses of the Quran, but for that I shall have to quote the relative verses of Quran with the context verses. Does one want me to quote from Quran, please?
Regards
I didn't criticize anyone's belief.
Instead I stated that I don't understand what a real God could be and no one is stepping up to tell me.
Do you know what a real god is? What real qualities God has so that if we had a real candidate we could tell whether it were God or not? If you do, please share.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Anybody else, please.
Regards
Not unless you can first show that it’s the word of God... but you can’t do this without demonstrating that God exists, so it would be pointless to bring up verses from the Qur’an.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Yes, G-d has let us know what a real G-d is and real qualities/attributes He has.
Regards
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But he hasn't. The existence of countless religions and atheists to boot refutes that claim.
So how can I tell whether this keyboard I'm typing on is God or not? What's the objective test?