Atheism people have a belief "God does not exist "

[Trailblazer]

No, you have no idea what is or is not reliable evidence.

Reliable is highly subjective.
I know what is reliable for me. YMMV.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it was what you really wanted. And lol if someone had evidence of that they've probably been up dozens of hours..

I have been up dozens of hours, on all my days off for four years straight. But I cannot stay up all night on work nights. I cannot work very well on three or four hours of sleep... My work has to be very precise. If I mess up my map millions of dollars could end up going to the wrong taxing district. Then guess who will get the blame when the error is discovered.

The atheists can wait for their evidence. They have been waiting a long time already. A few days longer won’t kill them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unlike some i do not make false statements

You listed your opinion and the opinion of a man who claims to be gods messenger (???). You did not provide evidence. Even when the definition was offered you choose a different wording to alter the meaning to suite yourself

Never once did I say that what I believe is my opinion.
I listed the “categories” of evidence more than once. Here they are again.
The evidence that indicates that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God is as follows:

• What He was like as a person (His character);
• What He did during His mission on earth;
• The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
• The scriptures that He wrote;
• What others have written about Him;
• The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming,
• The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;Edit
• The predictions He made that have come to pass;
• The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

I cannot post everything in those categories on a public forum. All of these are researchable and verifiable through independent investigation.

“The first principle Baha’u’llah urged was the independent investigation of truth. “Each individual,” He said, “is following the faith of his ancestors who themselves are lost in the maze of tradition. Reality is steeped in dogmas and doctrines. If each investigate for himself, he will find that Reality is one; does not admit of multiplicity; is not divisible. All will find the same foundation and all will be at peace.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 3, p. 5.

“What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.”
Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62.

“The principles of the Teachings of Bahá’u’lláh should be carefully studied, one by one, until they are realized and understood by mind and heart—so will you become strong followers of the light, truly spiritual, heavenly soldiers of God, acquiring and spreading the true civilization in Persia, in Europe, and in the whole world.”
Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 22

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I have been up dozens of hours, on all my days off for four years straight. But I cannot stay up all night on work nights. I cannot work very well on three or four hours of sleep... My work has to be very precise. If I mess up my map millions of dollars could end up going to the wrong taxing district. Then guess who will get the blame when the error is discovered.

The atheists can wait for their evidence. They have been waiting a long time already. A few days longer won’t kill them.

A dozen means twelve

 

[Subduction Zone]

Knowledge that God exist cannot be demonstrated to others. It has to come from within a person after they have looked at the evidence. People have to demonstrate it to themselves. It would not mean anything if someone else demonstrated it to them because everyone is unique in what they need for evidence and how they evaluate it. Evidence is like a shoe that has to fit perfectly.

Then it is mere belief and not knowledge.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reliable is highly subjective.
I know what is reliable for me. YMMV.

Then it is by definition not reliable. Reliable evidence is evidence regardless of who looks at it, as long as that person is honest. What you have is confirmation bias.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no contradiction. IF god wants to be mysterious and incapable of being verified that's perfectly fine. HOWEVER, if God WANTS me to believe that God exists, THEN God should know that I will require verifiable evidence in order to do so. Any creator being would KNOW that it created me with a logical rational thinking brain and that I am not capable of just turning off my logical rational thinking brain in order to 'believe, in something without verifiable evidence.

God does know that but God is not going to change His time-honored Method of communication, the Method He has used from the dawn of human history, just to accommodate a few atheists. But the salient point is that God does not want to be verified, so that is why He is not verifiable, not the way you want Him to be verified. I have verified that God exists in my own mind because I believe that Baha’u’llah was a Manifestation of God on earth.

Verifiable evidence if only possible for the Messengers to receive because God communicates to them through the Holy Spirit and they know they received communication from God, but even they are barred from ever knowing the Essence of God.

I don't see that as a problem. I see that as the only rational way to live one's life. If something cannot be verified it's ludicrous to go ahead and believe in it anyway. In Fact, I'd say that the true 'problem' is when people decide that they can 'verify that God exists for themselves'. I have absolutely no doubt that the moronic terrorists who flew airplanes into buildings back on 9/11 convinced themselves that they had 'verified that God wanted from them' for themselves, instead of using actual verifiable evidence. They were SO convinced that they'd discovered God's desires 'for themselves' that they were willing to sacrifice their lives for it.

Terrorists were not following what God revealed to Muhammad in the Qur’an. They go by Hadiths which are sayings that changed the original message. All religions have been changed by humans except the Baha’i Faith. It is the only religion that remains in its pristine condition because we have the Original Writings of Baha’u’llah and they cannot be tampered with. So we know exactly what God’s Will is for us.

Wouldn't it have been FAR better if instead of verifying 'for themselves' what God wanted that the terrorists had decided that it was better not to believe in anything without verifiable evidence that it was actually true?

No, it would have been better if they had read the Qur’an and actually understood it and followed what was written. It would have even been better if the Muslims had recognized Baha’u’llah and followed Him because He outlawed Holy War in His Book of Laws:

“In another Tablet Bahá’u’lláh stresses the importance of fellowship with the followers of all religions; He also states that “the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book” The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 241

So unless you think that God actually DID want them to fly airplanes into buildings, then you have to concede that people can delude themselves into believing that they've verified in their own mind that a God is real when in reality it is not.

This has nothing to do with God. It has to do with distorting the message of God that came through a religion, in order to suit their agenda. The Christians did the same thing all throughout history.

 

[Trailblazer]

A dozen means twelve

I know. I meant that figuratively.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

I know. I meant that figuratively.

I didn't.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then it is mere belief and not knowledge.

It is knowledge because I demonstrated it to myself by looking at all the evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then it is by definition not reliable. Reliable evidence is evidence regardless of who looks at it, as long as that person is honest. What you have is confirmation bias.

No, that is not true. What is reliable to one person is not considered reliable to another person.
Reliable is highly subjective because all humans think about evidence differently.
Our 1986 Honda Prelude is reliable to us, but most people would say it is too old to be a reliable car.

 

[Trailblazer]

I didn't.

We read and interpret the same words differently.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It is knowledge because I demonstrated it to myself by looking at all the evidence.

Until you can show it to others it is just confirmation bias at best.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, that is not true. What is reliable to one person is not considered reliable to another person.
Reliable is highly subjective because all humans think about evidence differently.
Our 1986 Honda Prelude is reliable to us, but most people would say it is too old to be a reliable car.

That's a stretch. Remember what I said about being honest in regards to evidence.

 

[Shushersbedamned]

That's a stretch. Remember what I said about being honest in regards to evidence.

There is a difference between honesty and sincerity

 

[ChristineM]

Never once did I say that what I believe is my opinion.
I listed the “categories” of evidence more than once. Here they are again.
The evidence that indicates that Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God is as follows:

• What He was like as a person (His character);
• What He did during His mission on earth;
• The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
• The scriptures that He wrote;
• What others have written about Him;
• The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming,
• The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;Edit
• The predictions He made that have come to pass;
• The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

I cannot post everything in those categories on a public forum. All of these are researchable and verifiable through independent investigation.

“The first principle Baha’u’llah urged was the independent investigation of truth. “Each individual,” He said, “is following the faith of his ancestors who themselves are lost in the maze of tradition. Reality is steeped in dogmas and doctrines. If each investigate for himself, he will find that Reality is one; does not admit of multiplicity; is not divisible. All will find the same foundation and all will be at peace.”
Abdu’l-Baha, Star of the West, Volume 3, p. 5.

“What does it mean to investigate reality? It means that man must forget all hearsay and examine truth himself, for he does not know whether statements he hears are in accordance with reality or not. Wherever he finds truth or reality, he must hold to it, forsaking, discarding all else; for outside of reality there is naught but superstition and imagination.”
Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 62.

“The principles of the Teachings of Bahá’u’lláh should be carefully studied, one by one, until they are realized and understood by mind and heart—so will you become strong followers of the light, truly spiritual, heavenly soldiers of God, acquiring and spreading the true civilization in Persia, in Europe, and in the whole world.”
Abdu’l-Bahá, Paris Talks, p. 22

So you are not of the opinion...?

Your threshold for evidence is far below the norm

 

[Trailblazer]

Until you can show it to others it is just confirmation bias at best.

I cannot have confirmation bias because I had nothing to confirm before I became a Baha'i since I had no beliefs before that.

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.[1]It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.
Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

I cannot show what I know to others. It is their job to find it for themselves.
All I can do is show them where the evidence is and answer questions about it.

 

[ChristineM]

I cannot have confirmation bias because I had nothing to confirm before I became a Baha'i since I had no beliefs before that.

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.[1]It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.
Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

I cannot show what I know to others. It is their job to find it for themselves.
All I can do is show them where the evidence is and answer questions about it.

 

[columbus]

So you are not of the opinion...?

Your threshold for evidence is far below the norm

Unfortunately, it's not really below the norm. In a world full of devout religionists it is the norm. You and I are outside the norm.
Tom

 

[paarsurrey]

Atheism people have a belief "God does not exist "

Believing is primary with the humans, with evidence one goes to another belief. It is a travel from one belief to another belief, yet it is a belief. Right, please?
Regards