Atheism Plus

[outhouse]

Just saying what I've been told. (By an atheistic feminist, ftr)

fair enough

they can be taken in some different lights thats for sure, it all depends on the debate and who is involved.

 

[mycorrhiza]

From Wikipedia (because they're good definitions).

Atheism in a broad sense is merely "the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities."

Secular humanism is "the philosophy or life stance secular humanism (alternatively known by some adherents as Humanism, specifically with a capital H to distinguish it from other forms of humanism) embraces human reason, ethics, social justice, philosophical naturalism, while specifically rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience or superstition as the basis of morality and decision-making."

For a large part secular humanists are atheists and agnostics, but atheists and agnostics may well not be secular humanists.

So secular humanism isn't inherently atheistic? I guess I learned something new then

 

[Storm]

fair enough

they can be taken in some different lights thats for sure, it all depends on the debate and who is involved.

It probably also has a great deal with the individuals encountered - every group has its *** holes, after all. IIRC, the person who told me about them had only encountered the Facebook group.

 

[Storm]

So secular humanism isn't inherently atheistic? I guess I learned something new then

Point of clarification: MY understanding was that humanism is humanism, and that secular humanism's qualifier was specifically atheistic.

Was I wrong?

 

[mycorrhiza]

Point of clarification: MY understanding was that humanism is humanism, and that secular humanism's qualifier was specifically atheistic.

Was I wrong?

I don't know, I thought the same thing as you. The answers to my question seem to indicate that secular humanism isn't necessarily atheistic.

 

[Storm]

I don't know, I thought the same thing as you. The answers to my question seem to indicate that secular humanism isn't necessarily atheistic.

Well, we could be wrong, but until proven so, I'll stick with clarity.


ETA: The Wiki backs us up, though it does say that some secular humanists refer to it as capital-h Humanism. I do not find that helpful.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Atheist+ ... sounds like the resurrection of the Brights.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's where we differ, I suppose. My lack of belief in gods has no bearing on my social concerns. To me, they don't overlap nor do they influence each other.

The only instance I can think of where my atheism has a bearing is my refusal to donate to any charity with religious affiliations. I seek out charities that are purely secular, the reason being that I don't want my money being spent on any bibles or preachers instead of aid. But my concern for the cause is not a result of my atheism.

In my case, my belief that I can't rely on any gods to swoop in and fix things for us implies that if we want things to be better, it's up to us to make it happen. My belief that no afterlife awaits us underscores the preciousness of life on Earth in the here-and-now.

 

[Noaidi]

In my case, my belief that I can't rely on any gods to swoop in and fix things for us implies that if we want things to be better, it's up to us to make it happen. My belief that no afterlife awaits us underscores the preciousness of life on Earth in the here-and-now.

Yes, I see what you are getting at. Put that way, I probably adopt that approach myself - I just hadn't looked at it like that before.

 

[outhouse]

It probably also has a great deal with the individuals encountered - every group has its *** holes, after all. IIRC, the person who told me about them had only encountered the Facebook group.

if one wanted to learn about the founding father in church history, that would be the forums to hang with. some excellent work has been done there.

Im more interested in HJ then in christianities evolution.


No idea about the facebook group

 

[Storm]

if one wanted to learn about the founding father in church history, that would be the forums to hang with. some excellent work has been done there.

Im more interested in HJ then in christianities evolution.

I have no idea what either of these points are supposed to communicate, much less what they had to do with my point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, we could be wrong, but until proven so, I'll stick with clarity.


ETA: The Wiki backs us up, though it does say that some secular humanists refer to it as capital-h Humanism. I do not find that helpful.

I always took secular humanism to mean something like "humanism not dependent on religion." By that definition, a believer could be a secular humanist if they're engaging in humanism for reasons other than religious beliefs.

I think it would be rare for a mainstream Christian to be a secular humanist, but I've never thought that deism, for instance, would make a person ineligible to be one.

 

[Storm]

I always took secular humanism to mean something like "humanism not dependent on religion." By that definition, a believer could be a secular humanist if they're engaging in humanism for reasons other than religious beliefs.

I think it would be rare for a mainstream Christian to be a secular humanist, but I've never thought that deism, for instance, would make a person ineligible to be one.

No flavor of humanism is dependent on religion.

 

[Skwim]

So secular humanism isn't inherently atheistic? I guess I learned something new then

No. As I understand it, a secular huminist could also be an agnostic or a deist.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Atheism + has arrived, and this is its manifesto:


According to Richard Carrier at freethoughtblogs:

" Do you identify as an atheist? Then I can’t insist, but I do ask that you to defend these goals and values (not in comments here, but publicly, via Facebook or other social media): are you with us, or with them; are you with the Atheism+ movement, or do you at least cheer and approve it’s values and aims (since you don’t have to label yourself), or are you going to stick with Atheism Less and its sexism and cruelty and irrationality?

-Nato

I think this is a reaction to the view point of some xtians that we have no morals and don't believe in anything.

There are some theistic groups out there that want to impinge on the rights of those groups that they do not approve of. Some of these people are positions of power where they can sneak legislation through the legislature that do so.

Atheism + is in direct opposition to these hate groups. They are standing up and saying NO LGBTs are not inferior and deserve the same rights as heterosexual people. No women are not inferior and deserve the same rights as others.

When you are a caring individual seeing the systematic oppression of portions of society, do you sit around complaining about it or do you shout your disgust and revulsion from the rooftops?

Admittedly the last line is a bit insulting, hopefully they'll remove it in the future.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No flavor of humanism is dependent on religion.

Religious humanism is:

Religious humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The best example of this I can think of is the Quakers: traditionally, the reason they give for their humanitarian and egalitarian positions is that every person has within them the "Inner Light" of Christ and should therefore be respected and valued.

 

[Storm]

Religious humanism is:

Religious humanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The best example of this I can think of is the Quakers: traditionally, the reason they give for their humanitarian and egalitarian positions is that every person has within them the "Inner Light" of Christ and should therefore be respected and valued.

OK, I didn't know about that one. Not sure I see the point in it, but oh, well.

However, neither secular humanism, spiritual humanism, or plain old humanism are.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

OK, I didn't know about that one. Not sure I see the point in it, but oh, well.

However, neither secular humanism, spiritual humanism, or plain old humanism are.

Secular humanism isn't dependent on religion - that was the point I made before.

I don't know "spiritual humanism", so I can't speak to it.

"Plain old humanism" in a general sense covers all the various forms of humanism. Some are religious, some are not.

Edit: really, humanism is a system of ethics based on the idea that human beings have inherent value. Some religions speak to why human beings have value; some of them even proclaim that nothing has worth or value apart from what is bestowed on it by God, so anyone working within that framework would have to be a religious humanist if they're going to be a humanist. Humanism basically says "recognize the value in people and act accordingly." It doesn't dictate what we have to believe about the source of that value.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems likely to me that this atheist + movement will be short lived.

 

[Storm]

Secular humanism isn't dependent on religion - that was the point I made before.

I'm aware. Not knowing about the attempt to make humanism a religion, I pointed out that that applies to all other varieties.

I don't know "spiritual humanism", so I can't speak to it.

Humanism that's NOT explicitly Godless.