Atheism: The Great Nothing!

[Sententia]

:angel2: Thanks Heathen!

 

[mickiel]

And that, my friends, is a classic argument from incredulity. Lacking the ability to imagine an alternative explanation of the universe, mickiel falls back on his belief that there just had to be a complex creator, which he has no trouble imagining as a complex being that has just always existed. Physical reality itself couldn't just always have existed, because it is too complex. :areyoucra

What has always existed needs no beginning, yet our universe has a beginning, carbon dating proves that to me. Saturn is cooling off, it radiates three times more energy than it receives from the Sun, Its not massive enough to retain its primeval heat from formation 4.5 billion years ago, because its still giving off internal heat, it cannot be billions of years old.

The Earths rotation is slowing a fraction of a second per year. If the earth were billions of years old, the centrifugal force should have notably deformed the earth, and I question that.

The earths magnectic field has been measured scientifically for over 100 years, studies reveal the strength of this field is decaying exponentially at a half life of 1,400 years. If this measurement is consistent with the past, the magnectic field would have been comparable to that of a magnectic star as few as 30,000 years ago. The estimated heat produced by those currents would have melted the earth. Its academic.

The Moon is receding slowly from the earth. Both are considered to be 4.5 billion years old. The Moon never could have been closer to the earth than 11,500 miles. This distance is known as the " Roche Limit." The tidal forces of the earth on a satellite of the Moons dimensions would break it up into rings like those of Saturn. Based on the present rate of lunar recession, the Moon would have been within the Roche limit around 1 or 2 billion years ago, 50-75% too soon.

The phony nonsense of Atheist who rant at me for my views, are nothing to me, I have looked into this, and I am convinced.

Peace.

 

[Sententia]

What has always existed needs no beginning, yet our universe has a beginning, carbon dating proves that to me. Saturn is cooling off, it radiates three times more energy than it receives from the Sun, Its not massive enough to retain its primeval heat from formation 4.5 billion years ago, because its still giving off internal heat, it cannot be billions of years old.

The Earths rotation is slowing a fraction of a second per year. If the earth were billions of years old, the centrifugal force should have notably deformed the earth, and I question that.

The earths magnectic field has been measured scientifically for over 100 years, studies reveal the strength of this field is decaying exponentially at a half life of 1,400 years. If this measurement is consistent with the past, the magnectic field would have been comparable to that of a magnectic star as few as 30,000 years ago. The estimated heat produced by those currents would have melted the earth. Its academic.

The Moon is receding slowly from the earth. Both are considered to be 4.5 billion years old. The Moon never could have been closer to the earth than 11,500 miles. This distance is known as the " Roche Limit." The tidal forces of the earth on a satellite of the Moons dimensions would break it up into rings like those of Saturn. Based on the present rate of lunar recession, the Moon would have been within the Roche limit around 1 or 2 billion years ago, 50-75% too soon.

The phony nonsense of Atheist who rant at me for my views, are nothing to me, I have looked into this, and I am convinced.

Peace.

Smoking makes me smarter and more relaxed. Healthy people are dumber and more stressed. Rationalize much?

Seriously... what is not annoying but kind of sad is that these are not even your arguments. You are cutting and pasting. If you take these arguments and google them you can answer your own questions... Oddly you do not.

To each their own.

 

[futureplanet]

Well, it is the backlash from the "nothing" we have been forced feed for so long. There is an invisible magic man in the sky, that no one has seen, that never does anything (miracles to not happen, it's all statistics), never appears, never talks, no evidence of existence. It reeks of nothing. Nothing there, but we need to "ban stem cell research", we need to watch fanatic god lover smash planes into buildings, etc. etc. etc.

Think about it for a second. It is not about nothing, it is about putting logic and sense before ancient myths, so we can have a BETTER world.

 

[Copernicus]

What has always existed needs no beginning, yet our universe has a beginning, carbon dating proves that to me...

That is why I often use the term "physical reality" rather than "universe". The visible universe does have a beginning, but that does not mean that there was no physical reality before that beginning, only that we have no way of directly observing conditions before the so-called "big bang". When you make this kind of argument, you are equivocating between two senses of "universe": all of "physical reality" and the "visible universe". God is not necessary to explain physical reality, because it has no beginning. The visible universe, on the other hand, does appear to have a beginning.

As for your other comments, they had nothing at all to do with the issues under discussion.

 

[mickiel]

What has always existed needs no beginning, yet our universe has a beginning, carbon dating proves that to me. Saturn is cooling off, it radiates three times more energy than it receives from the Sun, Its not massive enough to retain its primeval heat from formation 4.5 billion years ago, because its still giving off internal heat, it cannot be billions of years old.

The Earths rotation is slowing a fraction of a second per year. If the earth were billions of years old, the centrifugal force should have notably deformed the earth, and I question that.

The earths magnectic field has been measured scientifically for over 100 years, studies reveal the strength of this field is decaying exponentially at a half life of 1,400 years. If this measurement is consistent with the past, the magnectic field would have been comparable to that of a magnectic star as few as 30,000 years ago. The estimated heat produced by those currents would have melted the earth. Its academic.

The Moon is receding slowly from the earth. Both are considered to be 4.5 billion years old. The Moon never could have been closer to the earth than 11,500 miles. This distance is known as the " Roche Limit." The tidal forces of the earth on a satellite of the Moons dimensions would break it up into rings like those of Saturn. Based on the present rate of lunar recession, the Moon would have been within the Roche limit around 1 or 2 billion years ago, 50-75% too soon.

The phony nonsense of Atheist who rant at me for my views, are nothing to me, I have looked into this, and I am convinced.

Peace.

There are only two choices, creation or spontaneous evolution which started from nothing. One choice has odds of 100 billion billion to one. Some choose the alternitive because they don't like the odds. Some choose the odds because they don't like the alternitive. One option has odds so astronomically mind boggling that the odds of the only alternitive are exponentially greater by default. That the universe happened to create itself by certain things occuring spontaneously , is an incredible sequence of abnormal events. Incredible events. Its interesting how Atheist don't believe in miracles considering spontaneous generation, if it ever did happen, is inexplicable by the laws of nature which is the very definition of a miracle.

Peace.

 

[jarofthoughts]

There are only two choices, creation or spontaneous evolution which started from nothing.

Nonsense. How do you know that these are the only two choices. Also, "nothing" is at best a highly inaccurate term in this context.

One choice has odds of 100 billion billion to one.

And exactly how did you come about this figure?

That the universe happened to create itself by certain things occuring spontaneously , is an incredible sequence of abnormal events.

Perhaps, but it only had to happen once. Also, how do you know that this would have been an abnormal event? You have a statistical basis of one (1), which makes calculations of probability worthless.

Its interesting how Atheist don't believe in miracles considering spontaneous generation, if it ever did happen, is inexplicable by the laws of nature which is the very definition of a miracle.

Actually, a miracle is a suspension of natural laws.

 

[mickiel]

Nonsense. How do you know that these are the only two choices. Also, "nothing" is at best a highly inaccurate term in this context. quote


Well you claim nonsense, then lets have the other choices, I am willing to listen.



And exactly how did you come about this figure? quote

I didnot come up with it, scientist did.



Perhaps, but it only had to happen once. Also, how do you know that this would have been an abnormal event? You have a statistical basis of one (1), which makes calculations of probability worthless. quote

I disagree, according to this theory, it could only have happened once, and never again. And it has not occured again, so there is relevence to it. Its so unlikely, that I believe it never happened anyway.



Actually, a miracle is a suspension of natural laws.

In my understanding of Atheism, there are no miracles, but any sensible view of how this Universe began, can only be a miracle, in my view.

Peace.

 

[Copernicus]

In my understanding of Atheism, there are no miracles, but any sensible view of how this Universe began, can only be a miracle, in my view.

Again, this is pure argument from incredulity or ignorance. Your imagination fails you, so the only thing you can imagine must be true. When it comes to the observable universe, that is. When it comes to God, you feel no obligation to say that you have an understanding of that entity's origin. This type of fallacious argument is called special pleading.

 

[waitasec]

I find it interesting that humanity can become so entralled with things that are really Nothing. How great movements of Nothing can literally sweep thousands of us up into it and carry us away in its dream, dreams that are full of hot air that leads to nothing. Like looking for wells without water, we reach out and grab what looks like it is nourishing, because deep down inside we thrist for that nourishment, because we are deprived. We hunger for true meaning. And then habitually look to nothing to fill that meaning.

When it becomes hard to believe in anything, it becomes easier to believe in nothing.

And I want to go into the " Represenitive of the Nothing."

Peace.

are you talking about the invention of TV, myspace and facebook?

 

[mickiel]

Again, this is pure argument from incredulity or ignorance. Your imagination fails you, so the only thing you can imagine must be true. When it comes to the observable universe, that is. When it comes to God, you feel no obligation to say that you have an understanding of that entity's origin. This type of fallacious argument is called special pleading.

The orgin of the Universe is a miracle, by any reasonable definition, Atheist do not believe in miracles, so they do not really believe in their own orgin. When you talk to a person who does not believe in their orgin, nothing they say can be trusted, because they are really confused. Don't even realize their confusion, but in their minds, they try to make sense of the confusion.

I see this everyday, you cannot reason with the unreasonable, its just not possible!

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

are you talking about the invention of TV, myspace and facebook?

Well I think those things can apply in some cases, many people cannot enjoy simple life without those things. And those things have dramatic effect on their consciousness. Movies and films just carry them away into all kinds of thoughts and very heavily influence them. This is a well known fact, and the theory of evolution has carried away hughe numbers of people who just allow their minds to be accessed by foolishness, which they are convinced is facts. Its their moment of truth.

Its the moment of manipulation.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The orgin of the Universe is a miracle, by any reasonable definition, Atheist do not believe in miracles, so they do not really believe in their own orgin.

No, it is not. By definition, a miracle is something that can only happen through divine intervention. Since we have no real idea of precisely how the Universe came to be in it's current state, the assertion that it can only have come to exist through divine intervention has absolutely no basis.

Stop being so childishly simplistic. If it were all that simple, atheists wouldn't exist.

When you talk to a person who does not believe in their orgin, nothing they say can be trusted, because they are really confused. Don't even realize their confusion, but in their minds, they try to make sense of the confusion.

You seem to the be the only really confused person in this thread.

I see this everyday, you cannot reason with the unreasonable, its just not possible!

Amen.

 

[mickiel]

No, it is not. By definition, a miracle is something that can only happen through divine intervention. Since we have no real idea of precisely how the Universe came to be in it's current state, the assertion that it can only have come to exist through divine intervention has absolutely no basis.

.

I disagree Flame, how the Universe began can only be described as a miracle , I am convinced of that. Its uniqueness, its obvious power and order, even its disorder is still controlled. When disorder is controlled, somebody is controlling it. In my maturity of thought, I see this. When we have no idea, that is not evidence that an idea does not exist. This universe is Gods idea, and its absolute proof of his existence.

Its academic, wether you can see it or not.

Peace.

 

[mickiel]

I disagree Flame, how the Universe began can only be described as a miracle , I am convinced of that. Its uniqueness, its obvious power and order, even its disorder is still controlled. When disorder is controlled, somebody is controlling it. In my maturity of thought, I see this. When we have no idea, that is not evidence that an idea does not exist. This universe is Gods idea, and its absolute proof of his existence.

Its academic, wether you can see it or not.

Peace.

In a prision there is disorder, but it is being controlled. The earth is a giant prision, but yet its disorder is still being controlled. Its obvious! Things could easily be much worse.

Somebody is controlling it.

Think about it.

Peace.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I disagree Flame, how the Universe began can only be described as a miracle , I am convinced of that. Its uniqueness, its obvious power and order, even its disorder is still controlled.

Nonsense. The Universe is 99.99999% nothing. How "ordered" could it possibly be?

When disorder is controlled, somebody is controlling it.

Again, you're being childishly simplistic. The universe is "controlled" by the physical forces acting upon it. Why do you need a God in order to understand that?

In my maturity of thought, I see this. When we have no idea, that is not evidence that an idea does not exist.

What are you talking about?

This universe is Gods idea, and its absolute proof of his existence.

Again, you're simplifying. If that were even remotely true atheists would not exist.

Its academic, wether you can see it or not.

No it's not academic, whether you admit it or not.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

In a prision there is disorder, but it is being controlled. The earth is a giant prision, but yet its disorder is still being controlled. Its obvious! Things could easily be much worse.

Somebody is controlling it.

Think about it.

"Things could be worse - Therefore somebody is controlling it."

That's a pathetic argument. Really.

 

[waitasec]

Well I think those things can apply in some cases, many people cannot enjoy simple life without those things. And those things have dramatic effect on their consciousness. Movies and films just carry them away into all kinds of thoughts and very heavily influence them. This is a well known fact, and the theory of evolution has carried away hughe numbers of people who just allow their minds to be accessed by foolishness, which they are convinced is facts. Its their moment of truth.

Its the moment of manipulation.

Peace.

then we are all manipulated...
every single one of us, right?
no one would be immune to being manipulated...

 

[Copernicus]

I see this everyday, you cannot reason with the unreasonable, its just not possible!

Mickiel, I do not see this every day, just mainly those on which I try to engage you and other religious fundamentalists in serious discussion. And still, I entertain the hope that it is possible. I am pretty sure that you apply different rules of logic to other areas of your life. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have made it this far to engage in these discussions. :sarcastic

 

[M O N S T E R]

His (the dude who thinks he's got everything all wrapped up in a nice, neat little package) is an argument from ignorance. A logical fallacy that permeates the "faithful". Epic fail. Next.

M O N S T E R