Atheism...the religion of...science?

[hero]

Hey, I'm a theist that uses science! What does that make me?!

Normal. But when you use science as a standard to live by, and look at a sunset and see reflextions of light rather than beautifully incoherent streaks and streams of pink and orange...your choosing not to see.
:seesaw:

 

[gnomon]

But then, why do you think their to be no God?

Because it's irrelevant.

 

[gnomon]

Normal. But when you use science as a standard to live by, and look at a sunset and see reflextions of light rather than beautifully incoherent streaks and streams of pink and orange...your choosing not to see.
:seesaw:

Science is not a standard to live by. Your statement shows you to be wholly ignorant of the concept of science.

As an athiest, I find great joy in sitting outside, watching a sunset, rainfall, any natural phenomena while drinking some cider and listening to some great music or nothing at all. The difference between me and most believers is that I enjoy the moment for what it is without having to place a supernatural justification upon it.

 

[hero]

Because it's irrelevant.

Not at all. Christ did not show us how to live in heaven, but on earth. Whether or not you make it to heaven is dependant upon the decisions you make.:jiggy:

 

[gnomon]

Not at all. Christ did not show us how to live in heaven, but on earth. Whether or not you make it to heaven is dependant upon the decisions you make.:jiggy:

What does this have to do with science?

 

[hero]

Science is not a standard to live by. Your statement shows you to be wholly ignorant of the concept of science.

As an athiest, I find great joy in sitting outside, watching a sunset, rainfall, any natural phenomena while drinking some cider and listening to some great music or nothing at all. The difference between me and most believers is that I enjoy the moment for what it is without having to place a supernatural justification upon it.

Incase you did not notice, a definition does not make something what it is. (Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet.) Unless I am mistaken, I do believe that you are the one who just tried view it as supernatural. By the very meaning of natural, it means relating to nature. If I believe that God created nature, their is nothing "super" about it. And just to clarify, you are the one who brought up creationism, so indeed you are the one trying to put any "justification" on it. This brings me back to something that I just finished typing but will do again. (The fact that the same answers keep applying to different question justify my views on more than one level.) I too enjoy the sunset especially the imagery I had when typing the bit, but it seems double minded to see one thing about life differently than when you live it.

 

[gnomon]

Incase you did not notice, a definition does not make something what it is. (Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet.) Unless I am mistaken, I do believe that you are the one who just tried view it as supernatural. By the very meaning of natural, it means relating to nature. If I believe that God created nature, their is nothing "super" about it. And just to clarify, you are the one who brought up creationism, so indeed you are the one trying to put any "justification" on it. This brings me back to something that I just finished typing but will do again. (The fact that the same answers keep applying to different question justify my views on more than one level.) I too enjoy the sunset especially the imagery I had when typing the bit, but it seems double minded to see one thing about life differently than when you live it.

I do not try to view anything as supernatural. The belief that God created the universe is a supernatural claim.

I'll repeat, science is not a standard. The different branches of science have their own standards.

 

[askeptic]

Not at all. Christ did not show us how to live in heaven, but on earth. Whether or not you make it to heaven is dependant upon the decisions you make.:jiggy:

GRIN - You obviously are not listening, and would prefer to preach. Is Christianity the only religion? Are you claiming that a god exists? Then it is you - the one making the claim that something is so, that must support that claim. A good place for you to start might be defining what it is you conceive of as "god".

I see this as a possiblity because, as I have now written several times, I theorize, with due experience and observation, that atheists dont acknowledge a God. It appears that many use what they do see to keep them from seeing any further, and that the reason why they seek what is evidently true, is so that they can avoid what they know is true. And if ever to justify, take to agnostics.:jiggy:

This is nearly imcomprehensible, you may want to take a little more time to form your thoughts. It seems you don't respect or believe that non-believers don't actually believe? You contend that everyone believes in some kind of supernatural being, but that they just won't admit it to you? You claim for yourself the right to believe - to make up your own mind, and then declare that others don't really know their own minds? Which cult do you belong to?

 

[hero]

What does this have to do with science?

The same can be asked of science. Science I said has seemingly become an atheist religion, and you said it does nothing to your belief. Atheism is not believing in a God or gods. So if science was not your reason for reaching this conclusion than what was it?
You said it was because of irrelevance. I then stated that God is wholly relevant to life on earth, because it is the journey, and without the journey their is no destination.

 

[JonM]

Normal. But when you use science as a standard to live by, and look at a sunset and see reflextions of light rather than beautifully incoherent streaks and streams of pink and orange...your choosing not to see.

Oh, that's not true. Well, not completely anyway. I know what you mean, and usually I am a lot happier just dispensing with the science and being poetic about it, but I also think the fact that something as cold and value-free as refraction of light off of various atmospheric particles could produce something utterly beautiful is pretty miraculous.

 

[gnomon]

The same can be asked of science. Science I said has seemingly become an atheist religion, and you said it does nothing to your belief. Atheism is not believing in a God or gods. So if science was not your reason for reaching this conclusion than what was it?
You said it was because of irrelevance. I then stated that God is wholly relevant to life on earth, because it is the journey, and without the journey their is no destination.

Then prove it.

 

[hero]

GRIN - You obviously are not listening, and would prefer to preach. Is Christianity the only religion? Are you claiming that a god exists? Then it is you - the one making the claim that something is so, that must support that claim. A good place for you to start might be defining what it is you conceive of as "god".

I cannot speak for a religion that is not my own, and am debating from my own perspective. I stated on behalf of a belief in example if nothing less to prove my point by disproving the apposing arguments incorrect logic. What I perceive God to be is not the topic, but if you are really interested PM me.

This is nearly imcomprehensible, you may want to take a little more time to form your thoughts. It seems you don't respect or believe that non-believers don't actually believe? You contend that everyone believes in some kind of supernatural being, but that they just won't admit it to you? You claim for yourself the right to believe - to make up your own mind, and then declare that others don't really know their own minds? Which cult do you belong to?

It is a theory, that you did not disagree with but continued with a stream of questions. The conscious mind tends to give way to the subconscious, revealing thoughts. Many times I notice such. And when I do I also notice that the thoughts remain unanswered within the person. If you do not understand what it is that I am writing, break out a dictonary, because it is all very simplified already. Psychology is not a cult. And by running from the questions at hand, you only convince me further of my theory. Unless you can enlighten me as to how my logic is inacurate or false, you accomplish nothing.:jam:

 

[hero]

I do not try to view anything as supernatural. The belief that God created the universe is a supernatural claim.

I'll repeat, science is not a standard. The different branches of science have their own standards.

If it is not a standard to live by then what is its relevance to living life? And assuming you agree it has none, then I repeat my question as to why you would hold it as a perspective of life and not live by it. Because to do such shows more than one truth in life. A missing truth for another perspective.

 

[hero]

Oh, that's not true. Well, not completely anyway. I know what you mean, and usually I am a lot happier just dispensing with the science and being poetic about it, but I also think the fact that something as cold and value-free as refraction of light off of various atmospheric particles could produce something utterly beautiful is pretty miraculous.

Then indeed you have agreed to what I said, but not the concept of truth within it, that their is more to life than science. So thatwhen debating about such, and you constantly use science to justify, are you not being double minded about it... to see something one way and call it another, especially when evidense is based on clarity, and science on evidense.:162:

 

[gnomon]

If it is not a standard to live by then what is its relevance to living life? And assuming you agree it has none, then I repeat my question as to why you would hold it as a perspective of life and not live by it. Because to do such shows more than one truth in life. A missing truth for another perspective.

I live because I do. I do hold a perspective on life and my own personal morality. It's one that follows reason and does not rely on any scriptures. I wouldn't say that much of the basic tenets I hold disagree with your own. Just perhaps the reasoning for them.

I say that God is irrelevant. But so is my misunderstanding of quantum theory.

 

[hero]

Then prove it.

It is a conceptual theory that can not be proven with evidense of vision but only that of understanding. :tsk:
Your the one who has to disprove it...it is my theory.

 

[gnomon]

It is a conceptual theory that can not be proven with evidense of vision but only that of understanding. :tsk:
Your the one who has to disprove it...it is my theory.

:banghead3

and with that, ladies and gentleman, I say farewell to this particular thread.

 

[linwood]

If it is not a standard to live by then what is its relevance to living life?

It`s relevance to living life is that it can help one determine thier own standards.

Atheistic people do not have their standards handed to them for the most part, they discover or create their own.

Science is sometimes a tool to help define those standards, it is not the standard itself.

 

[spookboy0]

Then indeed you have agreed to what I said, but not the concept of truth within it, that their is more to life than science. So thatwhen debating about such, and you constantly use science to justify, are you not being double minded about it... to see something one way and call it another, especially when evidense is based on clarity, and science on evidense.

huh?

Science is sometimes a tool to help define those standards, it is not the standard itself.

So what is the standard? If science isn't the standard, then to what are we comparing?

 

[linwood]

This is where my other question comes in. I believe every person, whether they will acknowledge it even to themselves or not, knows God exists.

But I believe every person whether they will acknowledge it even to themselves knows Osirus exists.

Does that sound correct to you?
If not then you now understand how silly the statement you made sounds to a person who doesn`t believe in your God.

I cannot defy God, I do not believe God exists.
To me I can no more defy God than I can defy the troll living in my closet simply because that troll is not there.

I`m sorry if I seem rash here but I do get irritated when believers constantly tell me what I do and do not believe.
How would you feel if people constantly told you I that they believe every person knows God doesn`t exist whether they acknowledge it or not?

Atheists who buy into science seem to me to be trying to defy that itching in the back of their head, convincing themselves otherwise. Many times I have noticed an atheist more arguing with themself than me.

What does Angelous` signature line says?

"If it makes you warm and fuzzy, then you must be self-actualizing subjective personal truth."

What about all those theists who "buy" into science?
What are they doing?

I`ll never understand why some thiests cannot accept that there are people out there who truly see not reason to believe in the concept of gods.
I just don`t get it.