Atheism

[Dirty Penguin]

babies...obviously....since it's said ("Atheist will eat your babies")...Thread Atheists are horrible people who want to eat your babies. | IMDb :: Main Boards | BoardReader

So let it be know that what I will be bringing to the table is the most suculant baby smothered in sauteed onions and drizzled with port au jus...


emmmm babies..!!!!......:drool:

bon appetite....

 

[jarofthoughts]

I would have to disagree with you having read Dawkins. But you are correct in that they aren’t even buying their own malarkey

I have read most of Dawkins' books and he would agree with my assessment that atheists aren't selling anything.
If you disagree please provide a quote and a reference.

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't know. As I said, untold millions were murdered (not in war) by atheist dictators in the last century, who made their own rules. They developed a moral system, it was only rational to them. Anyone who got in their way was fair game. Funny thing, at the beginning of the century humanist thinkers believed we were entering an age of utopia where man would evolve into all that he could be and make the perfect world. It just did not turn out that way.

What don't you know? Auto' is spot on as usual. Atheism is not a moral system at all. Any philosophical conceits outside of non-theism are attached to atheism; there's no inherent ethical, economic or political ideology accompanying atheism.

Any moral system created by "atheist dictators" was a consequence of socio-cultural and political machinations and had little if anything to do with deriving their morality (or amorality) from their atheism. Anyway, several of the classic examples of communist/atheist/dictators have been used as poster boys for the evils of atheism when their views were actually a bit more complex.

Stalin for example: he's an obvious example of the atrocities an atheist regime is capable of yet his personal views were actually a bit more confusing. I'm copying and pasting an old post of mine: There are many well documented Stalin quotes with "all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" but his daughter alleges he was a theist and that he admired Christ. Stalin also worked closely with the Russian Orthodox Church to cement his dictatorship and awarded several priests for their religious contributions. Stalin refused to include any literature critical of religion (I suppose Marx would be an exception if one thought it critical of religion) in his library and was quoted as explicitly denigrating such lit' as "antireligious waste-paper (junk)". He wrote and published poetry which often glorified God.

I'm not sure whether Stalin was a theist/Deist or an agnostic/atheist, but the point is it's clear Stalinism was not the consequence of atheism and was not a particularly driving inspiration for Stalin's crimes.

 

[javajo]

Then came Pol Pot.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

9-10ths penquin—
I sense an appeal to the consequences of a belief coming...
Curious, as I have seen quite a bit of
GOD bashing by atheists, so what is it that they are offering
in the stead of GOD and everlasting hope?

Why would they have to offer anything? Isn't it just a matter of figuring out what is or isn't true?

If atheism is correct, then it's a good thing to accept. And if theism is incorrect, then "GOD and everlasting hope" isn't worth anything at all.

penguin finished with--So atheism brings a pen to correct the menu
or is really an eraser?

Sure... the analogy works either way.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

Being so obtuse as to reduce the histories of Pol Pot, Stalin,etc to..drrrr it weres atheism is about as useful as reducing a historical critique of the bloody theocracies of history to drr it weres religion. But hey why talk intelligently and with pertinent knowledge over history, morality and sociology when you can just chuck out one liners right.

 

[gnomon]

I don't know. As I said, untold millions were murdered (not in war) by atheist dictators in the last century, who made their own rules. They developed a moral system, it was only rational to them. Anyone who got in their way was fair game. Funny thing, at the beginning of the century humanist thinkers believed we were entering an age of utopia where man would evolve into all that he could be and make the perfect world. It just did not turn out that way.

Well that's good enough for me.

No more books. No sir.

 

[javajo]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong. If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death? If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it? Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

 

[gnomon]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong. If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death? If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it? Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

Perfectly reasonable.

And God has to be good. Why? Because if God wasn't good it wouldn't make me happy and sane. Therefore, in order to keep me happy and sane, God is good.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong. If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death? If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it? Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

Congratulations, you've said....nothing at all! Lets break it down shall we. How noble of you. As no groundwork has been made that, "I don't believe in deities." descends in madness I'll chalk this up as some sort of throw away statement. Who knows. But I suppose we could add this to the list of stuff that can cause madness. By which I assume you mean some sort of undefined mental ailment.

. See."accident" implies an intelligent intent so......which nature God(dess?) do you believe or did you just make a boo boo here hmm?

I suppose we could invent fictional supernatural entities as part of a self absorbed move to attach cosmic significance to the lives of some upright walking mammals on a small planet in a huge universe...oh wait we already do that.

But then maybe a large number of individuals could perhaps find significance in their lives with anything from the pursuit of a vocation, the raising of their children and their participation in their family, or to some political ideology or nationalism or some other structured purpose....oh wait we already do that. But I suppose for some people, nihilism(not atheism) presents an attraction and some of those people are religious! What a concept!

And to say that we kill God we kill purpose is preeminently personal statement that requires a healthy dose of ego to apply to all people and think it's anything more than absurdity and a gross disregard for individuality. "Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God." Patently false.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own.

I'll be happy to compare my moral standards/level of altruism with any theist any day of the week.

I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong.

Actually, it is believing in things for which there is no evidence that is a descent into madness.

If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death?

I have plenty of reasons to live and I intend to do so for as long as I can.
I also do not fear death.
To quote Mark Twain: "The ten thousand years after I am dead will bother me no more than the ten thousand before I was born."

If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it?

I feel sorry for you if you have nothing else to make your life worthwhile unless there is some divine reward at the end.

Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't.

Besides, to really say there are no faeries, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't.

Do you, by any chance, believe in faeries?

 

[Nepenthe]

Then came Pol Pot.

Are you arguing that Theravada Buddhists who are atheists that believe in a heaven are more likely to be amoral genocidal dictators?????

SPOILER!
Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist atheist.

 

[LuisDantas]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong.

Sure. Except that the same can be said of belief in God, and such an unhappy occurrence is that much less likely to happen if one is devoid of delusions of divine empowerment.

I really don't know why some people see atheism as a bad thing. There is NO factual basis for such a prejudice.

If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death?

There are various possible answers to that question... but you seem to be implying that at least some of them are somehow dangerous. Is tha correct? If so, why?

If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd.

That is really in the eyes of the beholder. Atheists do not kill God, since we don't believe there are any to die in the first place. Some of us, myself included, think that it would be an absurd to assume a God in a reality such as this. Why would God choose to be ineffective?

What meaning has it?

Whatever we manage to find or build in it, I guess.

Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

That is not necessarily important, and IMO not at all important. It is just one more example of things that technically can't be said for sure, but are nevertheless true all the same.

 

[Falvlun]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong.

And how is this different than religion?

If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death?

It just makes the time we have all that more precious.

If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it?

Only if you believe that the whole reason for life is God. But that is not a necessary belief.

Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

That doesn't follow. I can say "there are no unicorns", but that doesn't mean I have to then grow a single horn in the middle of my forehead and vanish when I come into contact with non-virgins. The non-existence of God doesn't imply that the characteristics of said God must be passed on to us.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I know all atheists aren't murderous evil dictators. Many are able to practice a much more moral lifestyle than my own. I'm just saying, it can be a descent into madness if it goes wrong.

Atheism isn't a belief system. There are many belief systems that are atheistic, but atheism itself isn't a belief system. Atheism is not a thing that can "go wrong".

The philosophical distance from the sort of secular humanism that most atheists I know espouse probably has less in common with an anti-religious totalitarian dictatorship than it does with the most fundamentalist versions of Islam or Christianity.

If we believe we are an accidental by product of nature, a result of matter, time and chance, what is our reason for existence if all we face is death?

Whatever reason you want. This isn't reason for despair; it's reason to feel inspired.

If we kill God, we kill ourselves, for if there is no God, life becomes absurd. What meaning has it? Besides, to really say there is no God, we would have to know the whole universe and all its knowledge and we don't. If we did we would be God.

Exactly what bearing does the existence or non-existence of God have on meaning for a person's life?

The're only way I can see the issue as being relevant: if there's some sort of God who's going to set everything right with the world, then anything we do to improve the situation for ourselves or others is ultimately futile.

 

[gnomon]

Gnomon-- Humanity has a table?
Unless you eat off the floor, yes.

I thought it was a poker table.

 

[Falvlun]

Wow. We all pounced on that post, didn't we.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

I thought it was a poker table.

That's only for dogs.

 

[javajo]

Geesh. I'm just sayin. Anyway, I did come across an interesting revision of the Lord's Prayer. I'm trying to be a little lighter here, so here goes...

Our brethren, who art on earth,
Hallowed be our name,
Our kingdom come, our will be done
On earth, for there is no heaven,
We must get this day our daily bread;
We neither forgive nor are forgiven,
We fear not temptation,
For we deliver ourselves from evil,
For ours is the kingdom and the power
And there is no glory and no forever,
Amen

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

Wow. We all pounced on that post, didn't we.

What kills me is how the logic needed to make his post in the first place is NOT beneficial to arguing for the theistic viewpoint. I tend to see it in arguments were a Christian implies that God blesses his pious nations and non Christian nations suffer. So someone inevitably points out that currently many nations that are very non religious tend to be near the top in many quality of life categorizes. While the presenter isn't making a correlation=causation argument. It does highlight that if you take such arguments by Christians at face value. The data doesn't even support the false logic.