Atheist by birth?

[Songbird]

We both knew it was inevitable.
I'm just ****** he beat me to the punch.
:149:

LOL!

And I love that pouty emoticon.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

We both knew it was inevitable.
I'm just ****** he beat me to the punch.
:149:

I suggest you give me some severe punishment for displeasing you.

 

[blackout]

I do like this reply.


It makses complete sense


love the their asexual part. it seaxcatly the same as to why they are atheist.

simply, there are not theist.

...after I finish with the a's
you can move on to the non's.



Have fun with that.

 

[Songbird]

At least put it on the high setting when you're inviting.

Stun gun first, then the stockings.

I can't find it. Guess I'll use the BB gun.

 

[idav]

I suppose this is generally how I would describe it, though, due to my interpretation of the word as an informed conclusion.

Only theists would think its based on an "informed" conclusion. Just sayin.

 

[blackout]

I suggest you give me some severe punishment for displeasing you.

*delicately hands KT a pretty little Violet*,
*and smiles sweetly, while batting eyelashes*.

A picture of impure innocence.

that should teach him.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

*delicately hands KT a pretty little Violet*,
*and smiles sweetly, while batting eyelashes*.

A picture of impure innocence.

that should teach him.

I didn't mean that severe. Sheesh, just shatter my whole universe.

 

[Willamena]

Do you think of beliefs and aspect of awareness? Aspect of thought? Or something else?

Beliefs are a relation between a person and a proposition that they've composed about the world, or more specifically possible worlds (possible ways the world is). So, not so much an aspect of awareness or thought as an aspect of idea or concept.

Do you see / understand human infants as having beliefs of some sort, and we (adults) just don't detect it, because of way we define beliefs as having to show up, to be sensible?

I haven't thought about it much --I don't know any infants. I'm sure they develop beliefs at some point in their first year. But it doesn't affect my arguments any.

Yes, but doesn't awareness at least appear to vary?

Like, I can take what you're saying, and add in adjective of, "whole, complete, perfect, divine world" and you, or another, may say I'm not aware of divine world, I see no evidence for that description. I could just come back with, "nothing is missing for you, you are part of the divine world. You inhabit this world."

Which I sometimes do come back with, but am wondering if there is anything more to say to those who may show up and still doubt that they in fact do inhabit a divine world?

"Whole", "complete" and "perfect" are synonymous. If "divine" is added as synonymous, its use with the other words lends it meaning in addition to the meaning it has for you (and me). I would take it as poetic, but maybe that's just me.

There is a name for the doubters, whose worldview defines things into non-existence: exclusivism. I'm not the exclusivist.

No-one's making them atheists. They simply are atheists inasmuch as they conform to the definition of "weak atheist."

My argument is that babies do not "conform" when it comes to the utilization of such a relatively meaningless term as "lack of belief." Babies aren't "lacking" beliefs, they just don't have any.

Additionally, as a separate argument, I disagree that people who have no beliefs are atheists. I think the term "atheism" specifically refers to a disbelief in God. People with "no belief" have no information, i.e. no propositions in which to invest belief.

 

[lunakilo]

is a horse a somebody??? unkess your talking about Mr Ed your barking up the wrong tree.

Is the wrong tree an atheist? (sorry, I had to say that )

 

[Valjean]

My argument is that babies do not "conform" when it comes to the utilization of such a relatively meaningless term as "lack of belief." Babies aren't "lacking" beliefs, they just don't have any.

How are lacking and not having not synonyms?

Additionally, as a separate argument, I disagree that people who have no beliefs are atheists. I think the term "atheism" specifically refers to a disbelief in God. People with "no belief" have no information, i.e. no propositions in which to invest belief.

Sorry, I thought it was understood that I meant no belief in God.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Is the wrong tree an atheist? (sorry, I had to say that )

I don't know about the wrong tree, but the immoral, hedonistic tree is.

 

[idav]

I don't know about the wrong tree, but the immoral, hedonistic tree is.

Oh, oh get the torches handy!!!

 

[Sunstone]

I read a study once that said around 80% of all arguments involve mere semantic differences.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I read a study once that said around 80% of all arguments involve mere semantic differences.

Seems like a low estimate.

 

[Songbird]

Only theists would think its based on an "informed" conclusion. Just sayin.

Well, I carefully chose "conclusion" instead of "decision". As in, a deduction based on available information.

 

[work in progress]

Interesting theory.
I don't think it is right though.

I think children often haven't figured out the relationship between cause and effect.

Why do trees have leaves? To provide shade.
Why are rocks pointy? So the animals don't sit on them
Why should you not jump on the sofa? Because mom gets angry.

There is a connection between leaves and shade, it is just that the shade is the effect of the leaves, not the cause.
The animal free rocks are the effect of the pointy rocks not the cause.
An angry mom is the effect of jumping on the sofa, not tha cause.

I think it is quite a leap to conclude that because children haven't figured out the relationship between cause and effect, they believe in a creator.

No, it's not that children aren't trying to figure out the world around them - they are - the question is how do children make sense of their world. Child psychologists note that children start categorizing the world and separating it into domains, such as living and non-living. Although the boundary between living and non-living can get confused if the child becomes strongly attached to a doll and imagines that it is alive.

Simple rules of cause and effect lead to a conclusion that everything has a cause and a purpose....so the next thing you know, people (like Governors of Texas) start praying for rain, instead of examining the evidence that the lack of rain is part of a larger problem of a changing climate, and doing something about it!

So, some people never get beyond teleological thinking. My point is that everyone starts life with these built in assumptions of the way the world should work. And it takes a lot of sophisticated thinking to realize that much of what goes on in the world is counter-intuitive.

Children do not come into the world with preconceived opinion on the existence of any deity(s), and thus one could argue that they are not theists from birth. And I think not being convienced of the existance of any deities is one definition of atheism.

My point is that children come into the world with preconceived ways of learning about the world; and the assumptions that everything has a cause and a purpose will naturally lead to some sort of man-like or woman-like powerful creature who is the cause....that would be a deity from the way I see it.

 

[Valjean]

I don't know about immoral or hedonistic trees, but apathetic trees -- trees that don't give a fig -- are detested of God: Matt:18-22. Mark 11:12-25.

 

[Willamena]

How are lacking and not having not synonyms?

When "lack" implies that they should be having something.

Lack | Define Lack at Dictionary.com

Sorry, I thought it was understood that I meant no belief in God.

It was. Works for anything, though.

 

[Acim]

Beliefs are a relation between a person and a proposition that they've composed about the world, or more specifically possible worlds (possible ways the world is). So, not so much an aspect of awareness or thought as an aspect of idea or concept.

Yi, yi, yi, yi.

An aspect of idea, but not thought?

I'm mostly tempted to say, 'okay, we'll go with that,' but a little tempted to say, 'really? really really, you want to get that technical and stand by it? because if so, I'll be glad to show how all ideas, concepts and beliefs are thoughts.

Just to be clear with what you've said about belief, it is a choice, yes? Something composed by a person about the world?

I haven't thought about it much --I don't know any infants. I'm sure they develop beliefs at some point in their first year. But it doesn't affect my arguments any.

It tells me that you don't see them having beliefs. So far, everything in this back and forth is revealing to me that you understand babies lack beliefs, but that you wish to argue against this assertion, as if you are not arguing with your own self about points being made.

"Whole", "complete" and "perfect" are synonymous. If "divine" is added as synonymous, its use with the other words lends it meaning in addition to the meaning it has for you (and me). I would take it as poetic, but maybe that's just me.

I'd allow for poetic, as poignantly meaningful. I include you in this whole, perfect, divine world we inhabit.

There is a name for the doubters, whose worldview defines things into non-existence: exclusivism. I'm not the exclusivist.

LOL, on "there is a name for the doubters" as if the label will help clarify things for one and all. Also, LOL on "I'm not the exclusivist." Or, I'm not the person excluding people from a place, group, or privilege, except where I exclude myself from exclusivism.

My argument is that babies do not "conform" when it comes to the utilization of such a relatively meaningless term as "lack of belief." Babies aren't "lacking" beliefs, they just don't have any.

You realize that doesn't make sense?

I'm not lacking gold bars, I just don't have any.
Nor am I lacking degrees in law, I just don't have any.
Plus, I absolutely do not lack invisible pink unicorns in my garage, I just don't have any there (right now).

Additionally, as a separate argument, I disagree that people who have no beliefs are atheists. I think the term "atheism" specifically refers to a disbelief in God. People with "no belief" have no information, i.e. no propositions in which to invest belief.

Which is what I would argue, but there are some, very assertive, self identified atheists who argue that it is lack of belief, and not rejection of a belief. World of difference for those who want to practice particular brand of atheism, and argue for it on forums.

 

[idav]

Well, I carefully chose "conclusion" instead of "decision". As in, a deduction based on available information.

I see. My point though is if there really is anything to be informed about from atheist perspective. You may as well have thought up of a new imaginitive creature to add to the supernatural realm while considering it informing them. FSM was probably a better example when everyone wasn't so familiar with it.