Atheistic Logic

[Storm]

Copout. The very reason for this thread was my consideration for atheistic positions that I find illogical.

How is it a copout? I'm trying to explain my position, and you're telling me you won't even think of it. That's how "That's too far-fetched for me to even consider" sounded to me, anyway.

ETA: If that's not what you meant, then please clarify so we can get on with it.

 

[worshiper]

So what is the definition of one who truly fears god? It seems awful convenient that you can just lump all rapists in murders into people who don't "truly" fear god. Is that how you define truly fearing god? Someone who is too afraid to rape and murder?

What about the people who murder in the name of god? Oh but they're just confused and misinterpreting him? Isn't that a dangerous idea to have around if it can be so easily misinterpreted? With the sheer volume of "misinterpretations," how can you be sure of your "god fearing person" definition?

hence why the word "truly" is there as oppose to "misinterpretations".

how can you be sure of your "god fearing person" definition?

how you wanna ask me how? well heres my answer but i dont expect you to understand... God wants us to treat each other with respect. because we are all after all his creation. god doesnt want us to kill each other. so what will a god fearing person will do, knowing the facts i mentioned?

 

[rojse]

How can you be so certain of what God wants us to do? How many people has God ordered to be killed in the Bible, anyway? How many cities did he order to be slaughtered?

 

[McBell]

how you wanna ask me how? well heres my answer but i dont expect you to understand... God wants us to treat each other with respect. because we are all after all his creation. god doesnt want us to kill each other. so what will a god fearing person will do, knowing the facts i mentioned?

Your facts are a little off.
Now if you were to say that God does not want us to kill each other unless he commands it...

 

[Panda]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Romans 9:20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.[/FONT]

This is just the old argument about how belief in God is better that not believing as even if there is no God it won't effect your life. Have you ever heard of the atheist wager? Well here is is.
It is a rebuttal of Pascals wager, which is what you are using though you may not know it.

 

[Zeno]

hence why the word "truly" is there as oppose to "misinterpretations".


how you wanna ask me how? well heres my answer but i dont expect you to understand... God wants us to treat each other with respect. because we are all after all his creation. god doesnt want us to kill each other. so what will a god fearing person will do, knowing the facts i mentioned?

How do you know that God wants us to treat each other with respect?

Even if you do suppose that as a fact, that still doesn't tell you if murder can be justified. What if someone is suffering unbearably? What if someone is threatening your family?

It's all just conveniently applied word usage. There are plenty of people who live their lives with a healthy dose of "god-fearing" that have killed hundreds of people.

 

[Prometheus]

hence why the word "truly" is there as oppose to "misinterpretations".


how you wanna ask me how? well heres my answer but i dont expect you to understand... God wants us to treat each other with respect. because we are all after all his creation. god doesnt want us to kill each other. so what will a god fearing person will do, knowing the facts i mentioned?

I'll say this a third time, you have no idea what God's wishes are.

 

[worshiper]

Originally Posted by rojse
How can you be so certain of what God wants us to do? How many people has God ordered to be killed in the Bible, anyway? How many cities did he order to be slaughtered?

here's the thing guys ....
dont narrow your minds with god as in the one in the bible. there are other beliefs of god that is NOT IN THE BIBLE. you guys are generalizing.

my belief says you are not to harm others unless its an act of self defense. same goes with defending your families. now tell me if that is not a justified act.

Originally Posted by Prometheus
I'll say this a third time, you have no idea what God's wishes are.

and you sir have no idea what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by Zeno
It's all just conveniently applied word usage. There are plenty of people who live their lives with a healthy dose of "god-fearing" that have killed hundreds of people.

there is a reason why i put the word "misinterpretation" in bold.

 

[McBell]

I cannot help but wonder just how many different "One True" Gods the Bible has produced...

 

[gnomon]

I have heard more than I care to an argument that goes along these lines:

God is sadistic so why should I worship Him? If he tortures people for eternity, then I would gladly choose hell rather than spend eternity with Him. There is no justice or love or mercy in an infinite punishment for a finite crime (sin).

I hope that was an adequate paraphrase. The line of arguments quickly develops into a mockery of Bible verses about God's unsearchable ways. My purpose is to ask a question. Why do you (if you dare to use the above arguments) dare to question God? Let's look at the situation another way. One of two things are true.

1. God exists.
2. God doesn't exist.

I hope it is obvious that if God doesn't exist, we need not make assumptions about what He would or would not do. It is a nonissue. He doesn't exist. That is all that needs to be said. You can't prove that He doesn't exist by telling what you think He would do if He did exist and showing why that that doesn't actually happen.

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Romans 9:20
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

If God exists and He created you, then your logic and mind is only a result of His higher mind designing you thus. The key word there is 'higher'. If God exists, then His ways are surely better than ours. After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.
[/FONT]

However, if God does exist, then how can you dare to question His decisions? Your very being is only because of Him.

Which God. One God, two Gods. Him or Her or It. El or Elohim, Yahweh, Jesus, Marduk, Allah, Jah, Shiva, Tiamat, Zeus, Odin, Thor, Ahura Mazda, Shang Ti, etcetera and so on. Your question as is makes no sense.

The OP is based solely on the assumption that IF God (but I guess not the plural Gods) exist than it is only your concept of God. That is not worthy discussion. At best it's providing improper validation of a deluded assumption.

Even if the OP is expanded to include every conceivable concept of an "eternal" God for any human being on this planet to say "they know" the mind of such a being is nothing more than a deluded assumption based on nothing more than either the personal whims of their world view or in some cases a mental disorder.

then how can you dare to question His decisions?

It isn't His decisions being questioned.

After all, we are still incapable of creating anything. An atheist would do much better to not dabble in philosophical nonsense such as this, in my opinion.

It is just as logical to make the assumption that a God or Gods created the laws of physics and humanity arose by accident. I would also remind you that there is a reason that faith and humility go hand in hand. Precisely because that faith is not an adequate way of knowing. In fact, it is nothing more than an a way of rationalizing belief. If anyone's over their head philosophically it's not atheists. Indeed, with all due respect to everyone on this forum it would be those people who are essentially making things up to justify how they want things to be or believing in archaic forms others made up for the same purpose who stand on shakier philosophical grounds than those who choose not to believe in a concept not empirically verified.

 

[kmkemp]

Which God. One God, two Gods. Him or Her or It. El or Elohim, Yahweh, Jesus, Marduk, Allah, Jah, Shiva, Tiamat, Zeus, Odin, Thor, Ahura Mazda, Shang Ti, etcetera and so on. Your question as is makes no sense.

The OP is based solely on the assumption that IF God (but I guess not the plural Gods) exist than it is only your concept of God. That is not worthy discussion. At best it's providing improper validation of a deluded assumption.

Even if the OP is expanded to include every conceivable concept of an "eternal" God for any human being on this planet to say "they know" the mind of such a being is nothing more than a deluded assumption based on nothing more than either the personal whims of their world view or in some cases a mental disorder.

It isn't His decisions being questioned.

It is just as logical to make the assumption that a God or Gods created the laws of physics and humanity arose by accident. I would also remind you that there is a reason that faith and humility go hand in hand. Precisely because that faith is not an adequate way of knowing. In fact, it is nothing more than an a way of rationalizing belief. If anyone's over their head philosophically it's not atheists. Indeed, with all due respect to everyone on this forum it would be those people who are essentially making things up to justify how they want things to be or believing in archaic forms others made up for the same purpose who stand on shakier philosophical grounds than those who choose not to believe in a concept not empirically verified.

I think it's pretty obvious what religion I was referring to. Why are you attacking the part of my posts that were very clearly seen instead of dealing with the atheist counters to it? The arguments that I pointed out are only relevant to a creator God that has put us here. Why do you need to talk about other possibilities? This discussion doesn't include them. .

 

[worshiper]

I cannot help but wonder just how many different "One True" Gods the Bible has produced...

like i said i'm in no position to comment on the God in the bible. it not the God as i perceive.

 

[kmkemp]

How is it a copout? I'm trying to explain my position, and you're telling me you won't even think of it. That's how "That's too far-fetched for me to even consider" sounded to me, anyway.

ETA: If that's not what you meant, then please clarify so we can get on with it.

Because you are using one quote out of my entire post. Directly after the part that you picked out, I expounded on my position and why I don't think your position is even logically possible.

 

[kmkemp]

This is just the old argument about how belief in God is better that not believing as even if there is no God it won't effect your life. Have you ever heard of the atheist wager? Well here is is.

Why yes I have. And it's also not logical.

It is a rebuttal of Pascals wager, which is what you are using though you may not know it.

Oh really? Because I know what Pascal's wager is and what I posted has nothing to do with it. I want you to reply with this with something specific that I have posted that states anything along the lines of me agreeing with Pascal's wager, actually. I would never think it a good idea to believe in God to escape the punishment of hell (actually, that is an impossibility according to the Christian faith, but that's a post for another day). I do, however, think that an atheist with a proper understanding of eternal punishment would not make any of the arguments in the OP.

 

[Storm]

Because you are using one quote out of my entire post. Directly after the part that you picked out, I expounded on my position and why I don't think your position is even logically possible, but you just ignored it and read what you wanted to read.

It's called "saving space." Also, your "expounding" was essentially calling me either a liar or a fool.

 

[Panda]

Oh really? Because I know what Pascal's wager is and what I posted has nothing to do with it. I want you to reply with this with something specific that I have posted that states anything along the lines of me agreeing with Pascal's wager, actually. I would never think it a good idea to believe in God to escape the punishment of hell (actually, that is an impossibility according to the Christian faith, but that's a post for another day). I do, however, think that an atheist with a proper understanding of eternal punishment would not make any of the arguments in the OP.

You are using the same old "It's better to belief in God than not to argument." knkemp why do you find it so impossible to belief that others truly do see being with the Christian God as the worst punishment possible? All your arguments are doing is proving the atheists point that your God is unjust, unmerciful and uncaring. I think what you are forgetting to comprehend is that the issue of hell and eternal damnation is a non issue to Atheist. Quite simply I couldn't care less if people think my beliefs will make me go to hell because I don't think hell exists.
Even if it does, who are you to tell me what is the worst possible punishment I can receive? Maybe my personal hell would be being in the presence of God? It is very presumptuous and arrogant of you to tell me my views

 

[kmkemp]

You are using the same old "It's better to belief in God than not to argument." knkemp why do you find it so impossible to belief that others truly do see being with the Christian God as the worst punishment possible? All your arguments are doing is proving the atheists point that your God is unjust, unmerciful and uncaring. I think what you are forgetting to comprehend is that the issue of hell and eternal damnation is a non issue to Atheist. Quite simply I couldn't care less if people think my beliefs will make me go to hell because I don't think hell exists.
Even if it does, who are you to tell me what is the worst possible punishment I can receive? Maybe my personal hell would be being in the presence of God? It is very presumptuous and arrogant of you to tell me my views.

There is a huge difference in not fearing hell because you don't believe in it and saying that even if there was a hell, you would rather go there than be with God. One is ludicrous and the other is the foundation of atheist belief.

 

[Storm]

There is a huge difference in not fearing hell because you don't believe in it and saying that even if there was a hell, you would rather go there than be with God. One is ludicrous and the other is the foundation of atheist belief.

What exactly is ludicrous about having the courage of your convictions, kemp?

 

[Mister_T]

***MOD POST***

Thread closed for Moderator review. ​

 

[Mister_T]

***MOD POST***​

Thread reopened. Please debate in a civil manner and refrain from rude and personal remarks. They will not be tolerated.

Thanks.​