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Atheists - A Question...

nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Nimos said:
Weird scenario :D
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Thanks. :grin:

Nimos said:
Let's try to turn it around, where is the miracle or God, when some innocent is murdered? when a child is molested? etc. Does that make you think that God is evil or doesn't exist? or who is to blame for the lack of miracle or intervention by God in that case?
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If I had no idea or knowledge of God, yes, it might.
It would be similar to scientists who are clueless about 98% of the universe, and will only believe things they can test with their puny instrument, and limited knowledge... never mind they are wrong 75% of the time. :p

Now, consider that they really did know something, when something associated with previous knowledge happens they don't have to wonder, or guess.
They can form a hypothesis around the previous knowledge, and test it to see if it is correct.

Did you get the point?
Knowing of and about God, one does not need to think as those do, who are clueless.
Their knowledge helps them come to the right conclusion... especially if the conclusion is one that's already available, and don't require pursuing.

Either way, investigating the substance of both scientific and religious "belief" is important. :)
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Mock Turtle said:
The trouble is, this sounds so like the set-ups often used in schools and such, where the class (or the majority of such) is briefed to answer a question with an obvious wrong answer, and where some are not in on the act. And where, so often, the innocents change their true answers so as to conform. So, more about one's own autonomy than much else - given that a lot more evidence would and should be required in this scenario to effectively demolish one's beliefs or lack of such at a stroke.
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t1448.gif
Rubbing my hands together
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Polymath257 said:
No, they did not give a detailed explanation. They said it was 'from God' or that it was 'supernatural' or some such. That isn't even close to being an explanation.

So, for example, suppose the man comes in, lays hands on all the people, and all of them get healed. What, precisely, is the explanation of what happened? That he was 'holy' and God granted him this prayer?

How does that explain what happened? If you really think about it, you can see there is no explanation at all. All that is given is a few words to get people to stop asking questions.

So, by what mechanism did God effect the healing? What, precisely, happened in the bodies of those healed? Was conservation of energy obeyed? Conservation of matter? If not, what, precisely, happened to the matter and energy already in the bodies? It would be incredibly interesting to have someone under an MRI machine as they get healed to actually see the process in action.

Maybe, after all of those details are filled in, there could be an actual explanation. But at this point, what has been offered is little more than my saying 'it was all chemistry'. The main difference is that we understand some of chemistry so it could possibly provide an explanation.
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You misunderstood. The explanation has been given before.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
Polymath257 said:
Show me another way to test.

Then suggest another way of investigation that corrects itself if it is wrong.
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Deductive reasoning is the mental process of drawing deductive inferences. An inference is deductively valid if its conclusion follows logically from its premises, i.e. if it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion to be false.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
nPeace said:
Deductive reasoning is the mental process of drawing deductive inferences. An inference is deductively valid if its conclusion follows logically from its premises, i.e. if it is impossible for the premises to be true and the conclusion to be false.
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Which requires correct premises. Now, how do you know those premises are correct?

Which basic premises do you propose?

I want to point out that science is based on both deductive and inductive inferences, so this is NOT a different way of doing things than science.
 
SkepticThinker

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
nPeace said:
Thanks. :grin:


If I had no idea or knowledge of God, yes, it might.
It would be similar to scientists who are clueless about 98% of the universe, and will only believe things they can test with their puny instrument, and limited knowledge... never mind they are wrong 75% of the time. :p

Now, consider that they really did know something, when something associated with previous knowledge happens they don't have to wonder, or guess.
They can form a hypothesis around the previous knowledge, and test it to see if it is correct.

Did you get the point?
Knowing of and about God, one does not need to think as those do, who are clueless.
Their knowledge helps them come to the right conclusion... especially if the conclusion is one that's already available, and don't require pursuing.

Either way, investigating the substance of both scientific and religious "belief" is important. :)
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Sorry, how did you conclude that the scenario in your OP was an act performed by the specific God you believe in?
It's one thing to leap to "some God did it" and an entirely different thing to leap to "The very specific God that I believe in did it."
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
nPeace said:
Just go read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, if you havn't done so already. Say What?
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I don't see any explanation of anything like your scenario. In fact, I don't see any explanations at all. Just assertions.

Again, give *details*, not just a pointer to a long treatise.
 
Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
nPeace said:
So there is no physical explanation, if you can't find one. Yes?
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Nope.

So, exactly what do you mean by the term 'supernatural'? What is a scenario where a supernatural explanation actually explains something.

For example, take your scenario. Exactly how does a supernatural explain what happened?
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
So, unlike an actual real-life waiting room, this waiting room exists in a special universe where absolutely nothing happens except what you explicitly say happens?

This seems like a detail you should have mentioned in the OP.
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All waiting rooms do not have TV and radio, so no. You cannot change the scenario to suit you... again.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
Because you were indoctrinated to believe in a God by your social experience? And now you can't let this belief go.
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You know nothing about me.
In fact, I am sure you would say the same thing to a former atheist who once held on to what you don't want to let go of, and who now believes in what you deny... and they would laugh at you... like I am doing. :laughing:
What a lame assertion.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
F1fan said:
Oh, so your religion includes multiple creators, not just one God? How many other creators do you believe exists, and which one created diseases since it wasn't the main God you believe in?

Or if you believe in only one God, and it is the only creator, how did diseases come about in what the Allmighty God made? Did this God screw up?

You tell us where disease came from if you believe there is only one God, and it is in charge of everything.
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Who created SARS? Where did it come from?
 
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