Shad
Veteran Member
Define gods
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Atheists and gods
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
Define gods
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Because many atheists became Christians or theists
Note the recent conversion of famous atheist Anthony Flew a few years back during debates with
Habermas. Many Christian apologist started as atheists. Many many... and perhaps that suggests
there could be good reason. Josh McDowel, Lee Stroebel, the author some generations ago of 'who moved the stone' is another, Alistair McGrath.... many
Hearts can be as hard as diamond, but happily God has a transforming grace.
Note the recent conversion of famous atheist Anthony Flew a few years back during debates with
Habermas. Many Christian apologist started as atheists. Many many... and perhaps that suggests
there could be good reason. Josh McDowel, Lee Stroebel, the author some generations ago of 'who moved the stone' is another, Alistair McGrath.... many
Hearts can be as hard as diamond, but happily God has a transforming grace.
I like chip sticks and there is merit to there use.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
And many more Christians or theists became atheists. Look at the complete disaster of religion in the west. It's dying a well-deserved death.
Kuzcotopia
If you can read this, you are as lucky as I am.
It really does depend on their characteristics.
Some god concepts are logically impossible, others are so general to be rendered useless, and others are specific enough to be contradictory.
Not heard of one that makes sense yet.
Some god concepts are logically impossible, others are so general to be rendered useless, and others are specific enough to be contradictory.
Not heard of one that makes sense yet.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Anyone who seeks the Real Truth must be open to all possibilities. Sometimes the Real Truth can be what we least expect or something that we don't want.
With your question in mind, perhaps you should ask if atheists seek the Real Truth or are they like some religious people content with their beliefs and not actively searching for the Real Truth?
I'm sure with the diversity of people there are lots of variables and much diversity.
Anyone who wishes to learn something should be receptive the possibility of practically anything. Then we have to figure out on what basis we might accept that possibility to be reflective of reality. And based on our reasoning, we may decide to accept, reject or defer. This is true for any proposition (P), I think.
Let us say "P is possible." Now, all I need to do is examine it:
- What do I actually mean when I say P? (I need to understand what it is I'm going to be receptive to if I'm to know whether I've found it.)
- Do I have any actual reason to suppose P? (These would include actual examples, analogies, etc.)
- Can I test whether P? (Good, so how would I go about doing so, and am I willing to accept the results if they turn out negative?)
- Can I falsify P? (Again, how would I do that?)
- What do I mean? I mean that there could be some (possibly even just one) human who , without mechanical or other aid, through training, rigorous muscle development but without surgical or other modifications, could – using any known high-jump technique, get over a bar set over 12 feet over his head.
- Do I have any reason to suppose it? Well, I've been watching Olympic high-jump since the 1960s, and athletes have been breaking records (jumping higher) continuously. Can I assume that this can go on? Sure, why not – learning new techniques is something that feeds on what was known before, so sure. (On the other hand, the increases in height achieved has always been incremental – and those increments grow increasingly smaller. Mathematically, this might suggest a limit, but that's not definitive, so I guess I can continue on.)
- How would I test whether it's possible: well, that's a bit hard – we have, after all, been testing it for as long as people have been in sports, and it has not been achieved yet. I suppose we could devise some training regimens, put them to work on willing athlete volunteers, and so on. I do not think that we will ever achieve a positive result, but that doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
- How would I falsify the proposition? Well, once again, I can’t with absolute certainty. (This has the effect of making it a non-scientific hypothesis, by the way.) I certainly know that there are other animals (fleas, kangaroos, for example) that can leap many or several times their own body lengths. But then, I also notice that these are all “configured” very differently from humans, and I must accept that may be a factor.
See? I was open, but wound up saying, “nope.” Not definitively, you understand, but a big enough “nope” that I now dismiss the proposition. And I do the same thing with gods – or at least those gods that have been explained to me.
You are supposed to practice certain virtues when you use them, such as eating rice really fast.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Atheists have predicted the death of the Bible and Christianity before
One French atheist, Voltaire, said in hundred years the Bible will be in a morgue but in a hundred years it was Voltaire who was in the morgue and the Geneva Bible society used his house the one in Geneva to publish material. (and yes he also had a house in France)
This is true. There is conversion both directions, and cultures adapt. They adapt or they fail, so they adapt.
It depends upon age group, life stage etc. What happens very often is that unless you have a stable secular culture you wind up chasing people back into church, and churches provide things that can be hard to find. Churches are family environments and community centers. People smile and believe in each other there. Where in population centers can you find a relaxed country atmosphere, where people trust each other and freely greet strangers? The answer is "In a church." Secular culture seems relatively cold sometimes, and I do not see religion coming to an end. I see it transforming and constantly updating.
Because so many folks claim to have connected with them in some fashion. To assess such claims fairly, one should be open to the possibility of them being true.
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
I think most are, but there's a fairly large wall called "evidence" in the way of that.
Closing your mind to something is irrational.
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
Well I'm really sorry for you, I really am ;
that reminds me once of a neighbor who looked at me and said you know every time you cuss you put a nail in Jesus. I knew that was one of the limbo moments where they wanted to tell me not to cuss but the only way they thought they could or were taught was to hang up Jesus on a cross again. You could probably even say nicely not too. I would try.
And it hurt the person to say that I could see.
I knew immediately knew that wasn't who He was.
I had the blankest stare and was like okay I understand you don't want me to cuss in my mind.
(I kinda dislike the voodoo Jesus ideas)
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Soundwave99
Member
I'm open to the possibility that a deity or deities exist. I just don't see any evidence and due to that, find it unlikely. But I'm leaving the door open just a crack in case I'm wrong. I actually read apologetics and read about religion just to see if I can prove myself wrong.
Soundwave99
Member
I really respect that mindset, regardless of your beliefs. I think everyone, both atheist and theist who cares about their beliefs being true should have that view.
Pretty wise for such a young person.
I mean that.
Let me say that IF we had evidence we'd probably ALL believe.
Faith requires no evidence.
Blind faith is another matter and to me kinda dumb.
meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
ummm..
between isis and the atheists, marcion and the church?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
But isn't your belief only faith based, like where is the proof, and not counting the scriptures which cannot be trusted, I would really like to know ?.
Good points!
I trust the Scriptures in our Christian Bible.
I've never really studied other Bibles. I only have a general knowledge about
other religions like Islam for instance.
Is some of that trust based on fear and superstition?
Yeah, I believe so.
I was raised by a J.W. mother and early in my life I recall being scared
to death of that god.
Much later in my life I began exploring, reading, opening my mind a bit,
and trying to displace that fear with curiosity.
I think I still believe in a Power greater than me out of fear and a bit
of superstition.
Understand I'm in what is called "recovery" from addiction.
Alcohol.
A family curse that claimed both parents and a number of relatives.
Nearly killed me more than once.
I fight addiction every stinking day!
God, or a Power greater than man, is essential for me to recover from
a seemingly hopeless state of body and mind. One day at a time.
I don't even dare think about more than today without my fix.
Addiction is flat out horrible.
Imagine this: Consciously or otherwise planning EVERYTHING around
the availability of a mind, mood, altering substance!
Everything, all the time.
Alcohol is legal. It's socially acceptable to drink the stuff so no one
much cares if a person drinks unless they see negative unacceptable
behavior.
Now if one wrecks cars, hurts others, or commits some offense because
of drinking then people begin to think that something isn't quite right.
FAITH that a Power greater than man is essential to recover from that
hopeless state of body and mind ONE DAY AT A TIME.
So some may say that FEAR is the driving motivating factor.
Well perhaps so. I don't know.
I DO know that without that faith in a Power greater than man I WILL
die an ugly, alcoholic death that claimed my parents and most of my
relatives.
Fear and pain are powerful motivators in the beginning.
Now I love that Power I call God.
I love being sober and deeply fear relaps.
Addiction is awful and fear is a powerful motivator.
I've been in three rehab facilities. Once I was admitted to a hospital
24 hours AFTER my last drink and my blood alcohol level was
still a .40%. Really?
The doctors said there is no way I should not have been in an alcoholic
coma leading to certain brain damage and death.
I attend at least five A.A. meetings a week pray at least two times a day
often more, avoid "wet" places and any occasion where there is liquor.
THAT is how powerful the addiction is.
I had a friend who tried to get sober. He did a 28 day program and the
very day he was discharged he stopped by his favorite bar to buy
rounds for his buddies.
He soon was back in a hospital and I visited him.
His skin was yellow, he was barely alive, liver failing.
He got out, went right to the bar, got drunk, and died the next day.
He was a wealthy man dead at age 40.
Powerful stuff what?
My friend Bert was in one rehab with me.
He couldn't stay sober.
He drank all the booze he had, was too sick to get more so he drank
after shave and rubbing alcohol and it killed him.
I found him dead.
I stayed sober a number of years but eventually the power took over
and I drank again ending up in yet another rehab.
If I don't go to at least five A.A. meetings a week, pray, give thanks
for being sober today I'm WILL drink and I WILL die.
That's raw isn't it?
It's also real.
Alcoholism is an inherited disorder but it can afflict anyone that drinks
too much, too long, too often.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Thank you for sharing that, I hope all works out for you no matter what you want to believe, if it helps then that's great. I myself don't blame the alcohol, or anything that one becomes addicted to, you need an additive nature in the first place. This could be anything, it could be a period in our life when we were subjected to whatever, a bad parent, sexual abuse, raped, post traumatic stress, whatever, some of us are very fragile and therefore are effected much worse than the average person. We then self medicate our selves with whatever, as long as it pushed our pain away, and of course it doesn't, the only way I believe is to deal with it, to realize the past is no longer there, its all in our head. Because its in our heads or should I say the brain, the brain then need its fix, the receptors are continually wanting to be feed, so we become slave to our brain more or less.
Again I believe we need to deal with our underlying problem which really isn't the alcohol, which is secondary to that, find the problem and like a weed, pull it out, well that's what helped me, all the best.
And here is me singing One Day At a Time just for you.