Atheists and their jargon of insults

[shunyadragon]

It was never necessary in the days before mostly peaceful riots and what the definition of the word "is" is. Almost everybody was against murder and it was safe to assume those who didn't say so were also agin it.

Are you referring to the Days of Adam and Eve, and Cain and Abel.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The person's motives for rejection of science needs to be considered in the context of an ancient tribal agenda

Ancient tribal agenda will only get you on the wrong path. Christianity never existed at the tribal level for motives as it was born in Rome and based on a religion that itself came together after the ethnicity associated with it was less tribal.
And not only that, even many, many ancients knew those stories are just stories and opting for what they can best tell are facts.
It's more akin to the belief in witches and witchcraft occasionally pops up in mainstream Christianity but over all they've not believed in it.
The American Protestant Christian is one of those unique flair ups, born of social circumstances and conditions that gives rise to brands and flavors of Christianity we don't much see in the rest of the world. The Evangelical who denies science is the exception, not the rule, as he has such a dogmatic and terrible interpretation of the Bible that some may have regarded it as heretical to think god would deliberately decieve us and read so much to retrofit Messianic prophecy into passages in the OT where it doesn't exist.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The economy depends on vast waste and inefficiency. Shaving creme used to last for years and years now half the can comes out with the lightest touch. The cost to be connected to your utility has gone from $4 a month to $40 a month so the thrifty have to support the wasteful such as industry that has never even tried to conserve power. They get power for next to nothing. They don't even make small cars in this country any longer and you have to pay a lot extra to go "green". They add alcohol to gasoline which consumes more energy than is produced and acts like a wet blanke6t on most car engines. One of my car's mileage dropped from 45 to ~38 when it ran on gasahol.

Of course all this is oh so scientific. A few get rich as we waste resources and you have to pay whether you want to waste them or not. And now they purchased the science that says we need to make them even richer as they buy and sell carbon credits which will no doubt result in even more waste. The little guy has to pay as he is forced off his land or forced to change or lose his lifestyle.

You confuse commercial engineering with science.
This has been brought to your attention before. But you don't actually care, do you?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It was never necessary in the days before mostly peaceful riots and what the definition of the word "is" is. Almost everybody was against murder and it was safe to assume those who didn't say so were also agin it.

Ah yes, the halcyon days of yore lost in the mists of times past. When no one raised a hand to another. When riots and uprisings and disagreements were conducted peacefully. When pillow fights and stern words were the order of the day. When "is" meant so many infinite different things than it does or was and all the peoples publicly avowed "murder, I'm against it".

Do you think it is better to respond entirely from emotion and leave facts, context, extent and relevance out of those responses as much as possible? Or should we base responses on our best evaluation of the evidence available to us with recognition of the influence of our personal bias and limitations?

Would it be better to believe that people once publicly stood against murder and protested peacefully as a rule and now don't? Formulating our chagrin from such a seemingly recently unique position that we would have to publicly take a stand against murder today, alone. Ignoring the volumes of historical evidence that past dissent routinely lead to violent, often deadly, response and such things are actually now less prominent and not supported by the average person. Should we try to see the full picture or let our emotions and our own selfish biases narrow the focus of our responses to a rose-colored past that willfully misses much of those facts? While providing a picture of our own limitations to others that exceeds the scope of the questions asked and the responses rendered.

 

[cladking]

You confuse commercial engineering with science.
This has been brought to your attention before. But you don't actually care, do you?

Let me see. I hate science even though I use the internet that was invented with science and those who destroy the economy by engineering garbage and buying the science to support it don't hate science because they use the internet. I'm sure your logic is impeccable.

Meanwhile you don't seem to understand that the metaphysics of science is experiment.

 

[cladking]

Ah yes, the halcyon days of yore lost in the mists of times past. When no one raised a hand to another. When riots and uprisings and disagreements were conducted peacefully.

A riot is a riot and a mostly peaceful protest is a riot.

Do you think it is better to respond entirely from emotion and leave facts, context, extent and relevance out of those responses as much as possible?

People don't agree on facts evidence and reality. The problem is none of us see reality and then we don't communicate to iron out differences. The problem is language. Forcing "evidence" on other people is at the root of every conflict and most insults.

Many are willing to murder or die for their beliefs in the efficacy of science or the omnipotence of their Gods.

If science is so damn efficient then let science win everyone over and if your God is so damn powerful then let Him smite your enemies.

In the meantime those who believe in science should take a good hard look at how it's being used, how it's being taught, and what it has already wrought. Of course you aren't responsible for what others do with it but isn't everyone responsible for their own actions like voting for politicians in the pockets of purchased science? If you call yourself "green" then why do you tolerate inferior products that fill your garbage cans every week?

Why do you tolerate schools that don't teach after we spend trillions of dollars inventing curricula students don't learn? Everything is oh so scientific and we spiral down the tubes in a world full of murder and hate where only those who buy and sell science succeed.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let me see. I hate science even though I use the internet that was invented with science and those who destroy the economy by engineering garbage and buying the science to support it don't hate science because they use the internet. I'm sure your logic is impeccable.

Meanwhile you don't seem to understand that the metaphysics of science is experiment.

None of this is even remotely close to what I said.

You should calm down and read the posts you reply to with a speck of attention.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Many are willing to murder or die for their beliefs in the efficacy of science

What on earth are you babbling about? I don't remember anyone ever killing or hurting anyone because they didn't agree E equals mc² or alike.

In the meantime those who believe in science should take a good hard look at how it's being used, how it's being taught, and what it has already wrought.

How science is used has nothing do with what science is.

Atomic theory tells us only how atoms work. Nothing in atomic theory commands politicians to commission engineers to build nuclear bombs.

Of course you aren't responsible for what others do with it but isn't everyone responsible for their own actions like voting for politicians in the pockets of purchased science? If you call yourself "green" then why do you tolerate inferior products that fill your garbage cans every week?

Why do you tolerate schools that don't teach after we spend trillions of dollars inventing curricula students don't learn? Everything is oh so scientific and we spiral down the tubes in a world full of murder and hate where only those who buy and sell science succeed.

Buy and sell science?
Purchased science?

Again, what on earth are you babbling about............

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A riot is a riot and a mostly peaceful protest is a riot.

I recognize that you have and use secret alternative definitions of words, but riot is commonly recognized to include violence.

People don't agree on facts evidence and reality.

I agree. I often encounter people that don't use facts and evidence much at all. Some even seem to invent them from their own imaginations to pontificate from a position of seeming omniscience while demurring that obvious estimation as wrong.

The problem is none of us see reality and then we don't communicate to iron out differences.

Some people don't communicate very well and often do so from an emotional basis rather than one of facts or manipulate facts in promotion of emotional bias.

The problem is language.

The problem might be exacerbated by the use or misuse of language. Sure.

Forcing "evidence" on other people is at the root of every conflict and most insults.

Making unsupported claims and refusing to listen to others seems to me to be more basal to conflict. Evidence lends support for the position. Those seeing it as a threat are not interested in it and want only their emotional, unsupported omniscience to rule the day.

Many are willing to murder or die for their beliefs in the efficacy of science or the omnipotence of their Gods.

Murder and sacrifice are not the same things. I don't know of anyone here that supports the outlandish notion of sacrificing themselves or killing others to defend a "belief" in science. That seems more like an emotional response to beliefs of the responder and not supported by the evidence. I often find that those that rely on the epithet of believer in science do so as a result of the rejection of their baseless claims.

If science is so damn efficient then let science win everyone over and if your God is so damn powerful then let Him smite your enemies.

Science is winning people over to the idea that using evidence and coming to rational conclusions on that evidence is a successful strategy. I do not see a dichotomy between that and religious belief in general.

Your dichotomy seems to favor a position of violence that you seem at the same time saying you alone have had to come out and take a stand against it.

I often find such contradictions to be profuse throughout your monologues.

In the meantime those who believe in science should take a good hard look at how it's being used, how it's being taught, and what it has already wrought. Of course you are responsible for what others do with it but isn't everyone responsible for their own actions like voting for politicians in the pockets of purchased science? If you call yourself "green" then why do you tolerate inferior products that fill your garbage cans every week?

I'm am unsure what this diatribe has to do with the current or historical notions of the acceptance and rejection of murder.

How is the manufacturer of hammers responsible for the use of hammers in killing another? Do you think that somehow some manufacturers are able to create hammers that influence the minds of the users?

How are automakers responsible for ensuring the skill and sobriety of those driving their cars and how people use those vehicles?

Manufacturers have a responsibility to produce and sell products that do what they claim and without harming those using the item or those around when the item is used. They have a responsibility to their people and communities around them to operate in as safe a manner as possible.

Why do you tolerate schools that don't teach after we spend trillions of dollars inventing curricula students don't learn?

Again, a diatribe condemning me for things I have never advocated or shown a tolerance for and of things that are an emotional position without facts for support.

I went through a system that lead to my education and development as a scientist. I know of others that have done the same. I see the influence of things outside the education system that do much more damage than the education system as it stands while recognizing that there is certainly room for improvement in what we have today.

Everything is oh so scientific and we spiral down the tubes in a world full of murder and hate where only those who buy and sell science succeed.

This seems to be another emotional response that I often see from you for the failure of your personal belief system not to be accepted as scientific fact. Let's face it, you don't have the evidence and if you did, you don't offer it for others to review.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Let me see. I hate science even though I use the internet that was invented with science

That is a paradox often noted on this forum.

and those who destroy the economy by engineering garbage and buying the science to support it don't hate science because they use the internet.

I thought that the economy was supposed to eliminate garbage. I don't see any pet rocks for sale right now. Cars are much safer now than they have ever been. Maybe there are other causes to our problems that your personal bias is missing.

I'm sure your logic is impeccable.

His logic seems to be pretty good from what I have read.

Meanwhile you don't seem to understand that the metaphysics of science is experiment.

If it is, you have never provided anything to show us this.

All I can see is that this statement is a major tenet of your belief system given it is repeated incessantly in one form or another.

 

[YoursTrue]

A riot is a riot and a mostly peaceful protest is a riot.



People don't agree on facts evidence and reality. The problem is none of us see reality and then we don't communicate to iron out differences. The problem is language. Forcing "evidence" on other people is at the root of every conflict and most insults.

Many are willing to murder or die for their beliefs in the efficacy of science or the omnipotence of their Gods.

If science is so damn efficient then let science win everyone over and if your God is so damn powerful then let Him smite your enemies.

In the meantime those who believe in science should take a good hard look at how it's being used, how it's being taught, and what it has already wrought. Of course you aren't responsible for what others do with it but isn't everyone responsible for their own actions like voting for politicians in the pockets of purchased science? If you call yourself "green" then why do you tolerate inferior products that fill your garbage cans every week?

Why do you tolerate schools that don't teach after we spend trillions of dollars inventing curricula students don't learn? Everything is oh so scientific and we spiral down the tubes in a world full of murder and hate where only those who buy and sell science succeed.

Speaking of schools, I was just thinking of someone I met who spoke English as her first language (primary) but could not conjugate her verbs correctly. And--she was an English teacher in the public school system in the U.S. Makes you wonder what those children are learning as they hear their English teacher speak incorrectly. Scores for pre-college tests have drastically fallen in the past few years in the U.S.

 

[YoursTrue]

A riot is a riot and a mostly peaceful protest is a riot.



People don't agree on facts evidence and reality. The problem is none of us see reality and then we don't communicate to iron out differences. The problem is language. Forcing "evidence" on other people is at the root of every conflict and most insults.

Many are willing to murder or die for their beliefs in the efficacy of science or the omnipotence of their Gods.

If science is so damn efficient then let science win everyone over and if your God is so damn powerful then let Him smite your enemies.

In the meantime those who believe in science should take a good hard look at how it's being used, how it's being taught, and what it has already wrought. Of course you aren't responsible for what others do with it but isn't everyone responsible for their own actions like voting for politicians in the pockets of purchased science? If you call yourself "green" then why do you tolerate inferior products that fill your garbage cans every week?

Why do you tolerate schools that don't teach after we spend trillions of dollars inventing curricula students don't learn? Everything is oh so scientific and we spiral down the tubes in a world full of murder and hate where only those who buy and sell science succeed.

Oh, and by the way, wonder how some might figure Matthew 24:14 -- (I don't think it's theoretical -- hoping to 'see' it, not philosophically speaking either.)

 

[Dan From Smithville]

"Magic", they say.
They say "miracles", "supernatural", etc etc etc ... they even say "spaghettis" and in their minds is an insult. So they are.

What is really "miracle" or "magic" or "supernatural" in an atheist mind?
IMHO, they are just things they cann't explain with their current personal knowledge ... and there is soooo much happening in the world right now that most people cann't explain, that I would say miracles are happening all the time and atheists cann't negate it. Insulting is the way their brains deal with it.

As a theist, my first postings on this forum received immediate vitriol and venom from another poster. The interesting thing about that in the context of what you are claiming here is that it was from another theist. I have noticed that is fairly common amongst some particular groups of theists since I have been here. It seems that they often claim persecution while acting counter to that claim.

Is it a case of giving as good as they get? Sometimes. But it is a much a reality of some theists that they give before they get anything. I would say cast an introspective gaze inward to ask yourself are you getting different than you give or are you just giving the same form the start and crying foul when you get it back.

 

[YoursTrue]

P.S. There are many people who claim belief of sorts in 'god' (you know like being a "theist") and then go around killing their spiritual or non-spiritual brethren at the behest of others, etc. Or approving of it tacitly if questioned, and get offended by the questions.) There's more but I leave it at that now.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

As a theist, my first postings on this forum received immediate vitriol and venom from another poster. The interesting thing about that in the context of what you are claiming here is that it was from another theist. I have noticed that is fairly common amongst some particular groups of theists since I have been here. It seems that they often claim persecution while acting counter to that claim.

Is it a case of giving as good as they get? Sometimes. But it is a much a reality of some theists that they give before they get anything. I would say cast an introspective gaze inward and ask yourself are you getting different than you give or are you just giving the same form the start and crying foul when you get it back.

And I see this happening regularly with members of that same faith group. I often wonder if these people have the peace of Lord why do they seem so spiteful and angry all the time.

Why does their behavior not reflect the values they claim for themselves and so constantly and persistently decry in others?

I think it is just sad.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And I see this happening regularly with members of that same faith group. I often wonder if these people have the peace of Lord why do they seem so spiteful and angry all the time.

Why does their behavior not reflect the values they claim for themselves and so constantly and persistently decry in others?

I think it is just sad.

^ This. Well said.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And I see this happening regularly with members of that same faith group. I often wonder if these people have the peace of Lord why do they seem so spiteful and angry all the time.

Why does their behavior not reflect the values they claim for themselves and so constantly and persistently decry in others?

I think it is just sad.

I'd also like to point out that, in my opinion, you, as a Christian, are an exception rather than the rule. You're one of the few Christians I've come to respect. I can say that honestly because I was a devout Christian for thirty years and grew up in the church and among Christians years before that. Even though I've spent my entire life around them, there are just a few who I respect and am confident won't stab me in the back or treat me as if I'm beneath them. FYI, I'm referring to the Christians that I personally know, have encountered in church, and have encountered online. In my experience, it's rare to find a decent one.

 

[YoursTrue]

Exactly, the abuse from journals part of the above post is about peer review and editorial review (and the weird process that comes with). Though, I'd say that the strictness in reputable journals is at the very least somewhat reassuring. But it's very frustrating for many.

Going along with the tenor of this thread, including peer review (not necessarily scientific though), why do you think someone who claims to be a theist would get upset and consider it an attack when asked distinct questions as to his theistic beliefs perhaps in depth?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Going along with the tenor of this thread, including peer review (not necessarily scientific though), why do you think someone who claims to be a theist would get upset and consider it an attack when asked distinct questions as to his theistic beliefs perhaps in depth?

I think I recall that. It was on a thread about demons and this person was asking how people that claim demons make that determination. How did thy know someone was possessed by a demon and not suffering from mental illness for instance. Pretty simple, straight forward question that those claiming demons should have been easily able to answer. Yet they couldn't. Not one of them could. Instead I watched how they tried to turn the tables and make the discussion about the person asking the questions THEY COULDN'T ANSWER. It's a common trick to divert from their burden of proof. It isn't as if they were interested in that person beliefs or anything and it isn't as if not sharing those beliefs somehow prevented them from answering simple questions they should be able to answer. It was clearly a diversion. And when they were called on it and the harassment, in good creationist fashion, they doubled down and started following that person all over the forum. Others saw this too. So here we are months later and it is clear that person being harassed still recognizes there is no value in that discussion and it is irrelevant to getting the answers he asked for. But one member of that group in particular is doubling down even more in some new, passive aggressive level of harassment. As if they are the judge of who is and who isn't Christian no less.

I for one think it is sad to see people that claim the high road and moral superiority sink so low as to behave that way. You know what I mean.

You have a wonderful Thanksgiving, gotta run.

 

[YoursTrue]

I think I recall that. It was on a thread about demons and this person was asking how people that claim demons make that determination. How did thy know someone was possessed by a demon and not suffering from mental illness for instance. Pretty simple, straight forward question that those claiming demons should have been easily able to answer. Yet they couldn't. Not one of them could. Instead I watched how they tried to turn the tables and make the discussion about the person asking the questions THEY COULDN'T ANSWER. It's a common trick to divert from their burden of proof. It isn't as if they were interested in that person beliefs or anything and it isn't as if not sharing those beliefs somehow prevented them from answering simple questions they should be able to answer. It was clearly a diversion. And when they were called on it and the harassment, in good creationist fashion, they doubled down and started following that person all over the forum. Others saw this too. So here we are months later and it is clear that person being harassed has no interest in discussion, one member of that group is doubling down even more in some passive aggressive level of harassment.

I for one think it is sad to see people that claim the high road and moral superiority sink so low as to behave that way. You know what I mean.

You have a wonderful Thanksgiving, gotta run.

Thank you for your good wishes. Every day is one of thanksgiving for me. I am thankful for the prayer that Jesus Christ, the son of God, instructed his disciples to pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come -- thy will be done on the earth as it is in heaven.