Atheists are animals

[Thief]

I would absolutely love "sharing the kingdom" with animals ... it wouldn't be "heaven" without them, imho.

on this....we agree

but it is written......do not conform to this world
BE transformed by it


and your fate is known to you?

what form awaits you?

 

[leibowde84]

on this....we agree

but it is written......do not conform to this world
BE transformed by it


and your fate is known to you?

what form awaits you?

No one knows, right? People believe that the Bible is right about it; others don't. No one will know before it happens, and there isn't any evidence either way. Using the Bible as evidence is logically fallacious, as it is an "argument from authority".

 

[Thief]

No one knows, right? People believe that the Bible is right about it; others don't. No one will know before it happens, and there isn't any evidence either way. Using the Bible as evidence is logically fallacious, as it is an "argument from authority".

if there is no Greater Authority.....you have nothing ahead of you but a box in the ground

logic?

eternal darkness is physically real......yes it is

 

[Thief]

but let's leave an open door here.....
whether you believe in God or not

I suspect.....if you snatch things from others....as do some monkeys....
you could end up AS a monkey

if you prey upon your fellowman.....many people do......
then you shall be feared and hunted......as such an animal

if you scurry from anything and everything.....
you shall live in fear.....and such form

logic?

 

[leibowde84]

if there is no Greater Authority.....you have nothing ahead of you but a box in the ground

logic?

eternal darkness is physically real......yes it is

So, you admit that you are using a logically fallacious argument? That you are using claims in the Bible as evidence?

 

[W3bcrowf3r]

The belief by some in Judaism is that when the Messiah comes that we on Earth will revert back to not eating flesh again. Torah does not demand we do it now, nor do the gospels.

I don't know Hebrew. So i can't read the original Torah atm. I don't think that's the case though, because why would we kill animals with souls for our own sins if that was the case. Maybe i should study Genesis and the part what we are discussing in Hebrew to come to a good understanding. I can't trust translations.

 

[Bear Wild]

but let's leave an open door here.....
whether you believe in God or not

I suspect.....if you snatch things from others....as do some monkeys....
you could end up AS a monkey

if you prey upon your fellowman.....many people do......
then you shall be feared and hunted......as such an animal

if you scurry from anything and everything.....
you shall live in fear.....and such form

logic?

You think a human can transform into a monkey if they act like a monkey? You seem to imply that what you are is what you believe. Thus if you believe you belong to the animal kingdom as science has shown then you are an animal, If you want to believe you are superior then you become superior, if you believe you are a super hero then you become one. Belief is all that matters reality means nothing. If you believe that cryptic fragmented writing is the best way to communicate then you write in cryptic fragmented phrases with sometimes vague meaning. I am beginning to understand you logic even though I do not agree.

 

[Father Heathen]

Members of the species homo sapien don't cease being homo sapien by virtue of being superstitious, if that's what you're asking, @Thief

 

[LuisDantas]

@Thief , you may want to consider whether there would be a point to posting a thread that questions whether Atheists are made of physical matter.

Many of the same objections and lack of reasons to object apply.

 

[wandering peacefully]

don't knee jerk
It came up in another thread

seems at least one member here insists that we are animals
all of us
no matter what

animals are our equals.....no matter what
we are not greater than animals .....no matter what

and I posted in return.....
to be no more than animal.....I would need to surrender
my social abilities
my politics
my economics
and my .....God

so......redirecting and redrawing the line at hand

are non-believers.....animals?

What a silly question. Of course we are animals. All of us humans. Do you think you are a plant? Maybe a rock?

And we all are the most dangerous animal on the planet as far as our own and every other animal's extinction. I'm not passing judgement either. It is just plain old facts.

 

[Milton Platt]

don't knee jerk
It came up in another thread

seems at least one member here insists that we are animals
all of us
no matter what

animals are our equals.....no matter what
we are not greater than animals .....no matter what

and I posted in return.....
to be no more than animal.....I would need to surrender
my social abilities
my politics
my economics
and my .....God

so......redirecting and redrawing the line at hand

are non-believers.....animals?

none of those things listed define what is or is not an animal.
three choices.....animal, vegetable, mineral.

 

[Thief]

So, you admit that you are using a logically fallacious argument? That you are using claims in the Bible as evidence?

nope

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

consider the pending moment.....when you sit at the Table beside the angelic.....

They lost their brothers to an argument about something that looks like .....us
on third of heaven lost their positions for that same argument.....about us

and the angelic should share bread and wine......with a talking ape

and be happy about it?

see ....the Wedding Feast
a parable by the Carpenter

What do you have against talking apes? What should ANYONE have against talking apes? If the angels sitting at the table have even one shred of wisdom among them that is worth a damn then they wouldn't take this automatic, "knee-jerk" (see what I did there?) stance on offering respect to another being.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

to be no more than animal.....I would need to surrender
my social abilities
my politics
my economics
and my .....God

Why? Social non-humans have social abilities. Social non-humans have politics. Social non-humans have economics. Not sure about God issues but I doubt God is human-like for them.

BTW, do non-human "animals" have "souls" in Christianity? Even though the Bible doesn't say they do, neither does it say they don't. As for me, I don't have an opinion one way or another on this.

Well, in the story of the Garden of Eden's serpent and Balaam's donkey, they can speak even if the latter has to be granted the ability for a specific event. I think the idea that non-humans can talk somehow shows an admission that they are sentient beings even if we don't speak their language.

animals mature to an extent and proceed no further

But if primates other than humans can learn to cook and steal keys and stuff, we might be giving them a much needed push to something more interesting. I mean, even teaching cows and horses to play with toys might give them an edge one day.

can put on a man-made suit and fly through a rocky outcropping......thread the needle
put his LIFE at risk
and do so for no more than the reward of doing it

And there are entire books and websites devoted to Darwin Award winners.

a man can stand to a pulpit and convince so many.....God wants you to (whatever)

A silverback gorilla doesn't really need a God to make others listen to him.

Gods are effective convincing agents when the "strongest of the strongest" is just a weakling like everyone else.

a man can stand to a podium ...in uniform.....and lead a nation to war

and a man can lead us to prosperity.....or poverty

Other primates have leaders responsible for convincing the group they are qualified for the job.

Wolves too.

That depends entirely on the scale you’re measuring by. We’re not the greatest animal by size, speed, strength, agility etc. We can’t swim or climb especially well and we can’t fly at all. Our eyesight is average, our hearing poor and our sense of smell all but none existent. There are things we are good at, some all but uniquely, but that doesn’t make us overall better than any other species.

It's like this one episode of Farscape where all of the non-humans, even the most human-like one there, are able to read print off an object the human protagonist would need a microscope to see. Eventually, Pilot even snaps at John, asking him in exasperation how our species became dominant since we essentially suck at so much.

but humans have circumvented those points in so many ways

But take away our cheat codes and gravestones fill up fast.

This is why i also ask why we are killing animals and eating them.

The same reason the lion does: hunger.

In Genesis we did eat from the 'green herbs' (out of the top of my head), both animals and humans.

Plants can feel pain and communicate even over long distances.

Unless you're a producer, you're a consumer, and we just have to accept it.

Well, if a dead animal is no longer an animal, then since it isn't really vegetable, despite some spores here and there, that leaves mineral.

From the show Dinosaurs:

• "As you can see, I have separated all known dinosaur wisdom into three categories: animal, vegetable, rocks."
• "Water is the opposite of fire, which we have previously established as a vegetable. What's the opposite of a vegetable? Fruit. So, water is a fruit! Fruit is not a vegetable, so it has to be either an animal or a rock. We know it's not an animal. Therefore, fruit is a rock."

They lost their brothers to an argument about something that looks like .....us
on third of heaven lost their positions for that same argument.....about us

So, it's a heavenly version of the plot of the Planet of the Apes, then?

The juiced up apes decide one moral should be "ape not kill ape", but I guess Cesar's human buddy failed to mention that we are also apes. You have all the great apes fighting with each other about which version should stick around when they're all apes anyway.

if there is no Greater Authority.....you have nothing ahead of you but a box in the ground

A book shouldn't be that authority, though.

eternal darkness is physically real......yes it is

I work night shifts a lot. Light hurts my eyes.

You need darkness. If there was only daylight, you could never appreciate just how vast the universe is beyond the atmosphere of our lonely little planet. Only in darkness is the scope of reality truly revealed.

You seem to imply that what you are is what you believe.

And a lot of people think they are made of dirt, so....

What do you have against talking apes?

Some people act like God would be offended if we turned out to be primates even though He was there when our species first appeared and would already be well aware of what we were.

 

[Segev Moran]

How are we the most important animals?

I didn't say we are the most important ones. i said we are better in the important things.
Every creature and organism on our planet is as important as the other to our ecological systems.
Human are the only specie that can terminate the entire ecological system by will

We are animals no matter what and not dependent on sophistication. Sophistication does not necessarily mean better.

Agreed.
We are not better in sophistication, we are actually a very simple being compared to the life forms we know of.
The octopus is much more complex than us. the ant, the bird, the jelly fish and many more.
[/QUOTE]
We are maladaptive to our environment.
How so?
If we were not so, we were long gone.
I think you are simply mixing the fact we don't need to be as we can change our environment to suit our needs (for better or worse, yet we can).
Humans are adaptive or else we would not exist today.

This would go against being appropriately adaptive to our environment unless you think the way we are treating our planet is a purely positive manner.

I think were are the worst thing that happened to our planet the way we are today. fortunately, the more time passes, the smarter we get.
Like it or not, our planet is what we make of it. we are the only specie that can claim this claim.

 

[Bear Wild]

I didn't say we are the most important ones. i said we are better in the important things.
Every creature and organism on our planet is as important as the other to our ecological systems.
Human are the only specie that can terminate the entire ecological system by will

Agreed.
We are not better in sophistication, we are actually a very simple being compared to the life forms we know of.
The octopus is much more complex than us. the ant, the bird, the jelly fish and many more.

We are maladaptive to our environment.
How so?
If we were not so, we were long gone.
I think you are simply mixing the fact we don't need to be as we can change our environment to suit our needs (for better or worse, yet we can).
Humans are adaptive or else we would not exist today.

I think were are the worst thing that happened to our planet the way we are today. fortunately, the more time passes, the smarter we get.
Like it or not, our planet is what we make of it. we are the only specie that can claim this claim.[/QUOTE]
We are maladaptive because we change the environment into what we want and not what is best for long term survival. We create conditions where life cannot exist by creating surfaces and structures that exclude other life. This is adapting the environment to our desires but is creating an environment that excludes plant life which supports our existence. We are using energies that create global warming which in turn destroys the life that supports our life. I am not mixing the fact but stating what is clearly a detrimental adaptive behavior. The consequences are already becoming clear.
Humans have always adapted to their environment that is why we are here. But it has not been until very recently that humans had the capacity on a large scale to destroy our world. Most of human history was in balance with the natural world. It has only been in the several thousand years where man has had a great impact on the earth and in the last 300 years where this has accelerated at alarming rate.
As for " our planet is what we make of it. we are the only species that can claim this claim" is a sad statement for the ignorance of humans. We have increased our knowledge but smarter? We were warned back in the 1800's by Alexander Humboldt that our actions were changing the environment in a negative way and would have profound negative effects for all of life including us. Rachel Carson pointed out our actions were destructive, John Muir warned us of the negative effects our behavior to the rest of the natural world. Earth Day was created to remind us that we need to change. Despite all of this is the human race really smarter? More knowledge yes but smarter? The president of the United States wants to go backwards in protecting the environment.
So you said we are better in the important things. Explain how we are really better if we are clearly doing things that will ultimately cause our extinction. Were are we better in the important things?

 

[Thief]

What do you have against talking apes? What should ANYONE have against talking apes? If the angels sitting at the table have even one shred of wisdom among them that is worth a damn then they wouldn't take this automatic, "knee-jerk" (see what I did there?) stance on offering respect to another being.

you must have read that story I post now and then.....

the one about.....
Man is less that you are therefore....seek after him and see that he not dash his foot nor his head
(instruction dealt to the angelic )

and one third of heaven said ...nay
That he is less.....he should be made to serve us
(there's nothing wrong with that logic)

one third of heaven rebelled and lost their positions
two thirds of heaven lost their brothers

and we should be accepted at the Table?

 

[Thief]

The juiced up apes decide one moral should be "ape not kill ape", but I guess Cesar's human buddy failed to mention that we are also apes. You have all the great apes fighting with each other about which version should stick around when they're all apes anyway.

you hit on it......and then dropped it

ever since that garden event......we are NOT like the rest of the animals

juiced up are we?......oh yeah
going back to the garden?.....nay.....it has been dismantled

going to heaven?.....not in this form

going to hell?.......if we keep on behaving like animals

 

[atanu]

Humans are the least sane species of the great apes.

Well. To me it seems that to claim that you need to be more sane than the apes. No?

 

[atanu]

don't knee jerk
It came up in another thread

seems at least one member here insists that we are animals
all of us
no matter what

animals are our equals.....no matter what
we are not greater than animals .....no matter what

and I posted in return.....
to be no more than animal.....I would need to surrender
my social abilities
my politics
my economics
and my .....God

so......redirecting and redrawing the line at hand

are non-believers.....animals?

In terms of biology, we are animals. But biology is our thingy.

I think, that we have unique ability to destroy natural happiness and also to regain it.