Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
Another comparison of a house (something that can't possibly exist without a creator) vs. reality itself (something that perpetuates by itself without any need of any outside help). It's a false comparison
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Atheists believe in miracles more than believers
- Thread starter Eli G
- Start date
Another comparison of a house (something that can't possibly exist without a creator) vs. reality itself (something that perpetuates by itself without any need of any outside help). It's a false comparison
It's not "another" ... it's the same one that you still continue to avoid (cognitive dissonance).
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
No I don't. I didn't make any claim about nothing. You did. You said:It is you who need to "prove definitively and demonstrably" that it happened in a different than the logic way.
""Nothingness", a void or whatever an atheist thinks existed before the origin of this universe, without intelligence, laws or order, cannot generate beautifully designed results which behave under established laws, etc."
That is your claim. Support it.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
If you literally believe all of nature and reality is made of tiny little houses and adheres to the logic a five-year old playing with wooden blocks might have, maybe "thinking logically" is the least of your problems.Maybe you think there are houses that build themselves... I can't help you to think logically.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
It is beautiful. Not a single god in the sky.Have a beutiful day.
Or, s/he presumes that there was no first cause, or ...
Too often the ad hoc Deity that you find so necessary is little more than a balm for uncertainty which some smear about with more arrogance than others.
Soandso
ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
It's not "another" ... it's the same one that you still continue to avoid (cognitive dissonance).
I can't avoid something that's unapproachable. You are trying to compare something that cannot exist without a creator vs. something that is self sustaining and self perpetuating. Those things aren't comparable. That, specifically, is what you are failing to address
How is a house similar to reality itself?
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Well yes, if you completely redefine a word to fit your predetermined conclusion, you can make anything true from a particular "perspective".
If (theistic) believers considered such events in the manner you describe though (which isn't necessarily the case for all anyway), they wouldn't be "miracles" by any standard definition. The point of miracles is that we don't understand how they happened. You can believe they were caused by some divine being but you still don't know how they were done, hence "miracle".
From a scientific point of view, the word "miracle" isn't used (other than metaphorically), because everything is recognised as having an unknown cause by default. Fire, rain and earthquakes would be "miracles" in the eyes of early man, but we now understand exactly what causes each of them.
The only shared characteristic of "atheists" is that they don't believe in any god or gods, so there is no singular shared opinion on either "miracles" or general origins of everything in the first place.
Every ingenious thing existing in nature was created by a powerful being who has sufficient resources and knowledge... Those of us who worship Him do not need to know more than that, although the Creator invites us to learn from the things He created.
Is. 40:15 Look! The nations are like a drop from a bucket,
And as the film of dust on the scales they are regarded.
Look! He lifts up the islands like fine dust.
16 Even Lebʹa·non is not sufficient to keep a fire burning,
And its wild animals are not sufficient for a burnt offering.
17 All the nations are as something nonexistent in front of him;
He regards them as nothing, as an unreality.
18 To whom can you compare God?
What likeness can you put next to him?
19 The craftsman casts an idol,
The metalworker overlays it with gold,
And he forges silver chains.
20 He chooses a tree for his contribution,
A tree that will not rot.
He searches for a skilled craftsman
To prepare a carved image that will not topple over.
21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
23 He reduces high officials to nothing
And makes the judges of the earth an unreality.
24 They are hardly planted,
They are hardly sown,
Their stem has hardly taken root in the earth,
And they are blown on and dry up,
And the wind carries them away like stubble.
25 “To whom can you liken me to make me his equal?” says the Holy One.
26 “Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number;
He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,
Not one of them is missing.
... not that He needs a Nobel prize from humans, LOL, but honor to whom honor is due. We believers say about a single butterfly: "What a beauty God gave us!"
For an atheist, the ingenious things of nature were made alone and without intelligent intervention. That's miraculous. What do atheists say when they see a sunset or a flower garden, or some other of the many fascinating things that God gave us? Do they say "Thank you, dear evolution, for giving us this beautiful stellar view during clear nights to enjoy!"???
Is. 40:15 Look! The nations are like a drop from a bucket,
And as the film of dust on the scales they are regarded.
Look! He lifts up the islands like fine dust.
16 Even Lebʹa·non is not sufficient to keep a fire burning,
And its wild animals are not sufficient for a burnt offering.
17 All the nations are as something nonexistent in front of him;
He regards them as nothing, as an unreality.
18 To whom can you compare God?
What likeness can you put next to him?
19 The craftsman casts an idol,
The metalworker overlays it with gold,
And he forges silver chains.
20 He chooses a tree for his contribution,
A tree that will not rot.
He searches for a skilled craftsman
To prepare a carved image that will not topple over.
21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 There is One who dwells above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
23 He reduces high officials to nothing
And makes the judges of the earth an unreality.
24 They are hardly planted,
They are hardly sown,
Their stem has hardly taken root in the earth,
And they are blown on and dry up,
And the wind carries them away like stubble.
25 “To whom can you liken me to make me his equal?” says the Holy One.
26 “Lift up your eyes to heaven and see.
Who has created these things?
It is the One who brings out their army by number;
He calls them all by name.
Because of his vast dynamic energy and his awe-inspiring power,
Not one of them is missing.
... not that He needs a Nobel prize from humans, LOL, but honor to whom honor is due. We believers say about a single butterfly: "What a beauty God gave us!"
For an atheist, the ingenious things of nature were made alone and without intelligent intervention. That's miraculous. What do atheists say when they see a sunset or a flower garden, or some other of the many fascinating things that God gave us? Do they say "Thank you, dear evolution, for giving us this beautiful stellar view during clear nights to enjoy!"???
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
I'm sure that's not what 99.99% of atheists believe. So, maybe there is an atheist that's mislead enough to believe it. "An atheist " as in one atheist.It seems contradictory, but if you see it from this perspective you will understand:
A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.
An atheist believes that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way, obeying some natural laws that emerged out of nowhere, by themselves.
So who is the one who believes in miracles?
Ok. So I'll rephrase the question:
you are not a bot, you are NOT an atheist, but you think that a 99.99% of atheists DO NOT BELIEVE that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way, obeying some natural laws that emerged out of nowhere, by themselves.
So, what does that 99.99% of atheists that do not believe that, believe about the origin of the universe and its order?
That's quite the inventive use of personal definitions there.A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.
An atheist believes that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way, obeying some natural laws that emerged out of nowhere, by themselves.
So who is the one who believes in miracles?
But were you to use standard definitions, your argument
fails utterly.
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
physical world that surpasses all known
human or natural powers and is ascribed
to a supernatural cause."
Fools.Bots ...