Atheists believe in miracles more than believers

[Pogo]

Air conditioning doesn't cool the Earth. It moves heat out of small spaces -- into the ecosystem. It heats the Earth.
Yes, we're undermining the ecosystem -- and our own society. Are you doing anything to reduce your ecological footprint, or just praying to god to intervene?

You have wonder whether the smilie is there to indicate a Poe or just one "unencumbered by the thought process" as Ray would say.

ETA i in smilie, GD autocorrect.

 

[Pogo]

Is it on us to bring back the dead?

If we want Zombies probably, can't think of who else would do it, but why?

 

[YoursTrue]

Air conditioning doesn't cool the Earth. It moves heat out of small spaces -- into the ecosystem. It heats the Earth.
Yes, we're undermining the ecosystem -- and our own society. Are you doing anything to reduce your ecological footprint, or just praying to god to intervene?

There is no doubt that mankind in ruining the earth. Do you think you can do something to reverse that? I'm sure I cannot. Although I follow rules about garbage disposal and things like that. I'm happy when my a/c keeps going and not happy when it isn't working. Yes, I look forward to God intervening as the Bible says He will. Have a good one as things go forth.

 

[Pogo]

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
About the limit of the concept of reality in regards to the everyday world.

Yeah, so?

 

[leroy]

No.
This has been explained to you several times by several people. Did you even read those posts?
"Dark matter" is not an explanation. It's rather the label used to refer to an unexplained phenomenon.

.

You are factually wrong.

But just change dark matter for anything else (say common ancestry)

1 If you claim that common ancestry is the best explanation for genetic similarities in chimps and humans

2 and I reject your claim and claim that you are wrong…………I would be tacitly claiming that I have a better alternative

3 you would expect me to provide an alternative explanation and support it……………agree? (yes)

What is so controversial about those 3 statemenst?

If I would have wanted to avoid the burden proof, I would have had to make a softer claim………something like “I don’t know if you are correct or not”

When you are trying to solve a murder case and come up with a claim that uses false premises or otherwise engages in fallacious argumentation or misrepresentation of facts, we can absolutely dismiss those claims without having an "alternative".
We don't need alternatives to nonsense.

AGREE but that is a strawman

What I am actually saying is that if:

1 I claim that X is the best explanation to Y

2 and if you claim that I am wrong

3 you do have a burden

Can you please stop this nonsense and agree with this simple and uncontroversial statement?

Besides, why are you (and @Valjean ) so afraid of proposing an alternative? All you have is to provide a better alternative than “God” for the origin of the universe…which shouldn’t be hard, given that you think that God is a very bad hypothesis................

The alternatives for the origin of the universe (all physical reality including space and time) are:

1 The universe had a cause, a timeless immaterial spesless personal, intelligent cause, ……(that I happen to call God, but you can call it however you want)

2 the universe had a cause but with some other attributes

3 the universe came from nothing

4 the universe is and has always been (like a brute fact)

5 something else

All I am saying is that if you disagree on that “1” is the best alternative , you are expected to provide an alternative, develop your argument and support it. (which means that you have a burden proof)

If you don’t want a burden proof, then you should make a softer claim………….something like “I don’t know and I have no reason to think that any alternative is better than the other”

What you shouldn’t do is both, make a strong claim (claim that 1 is not the best alternative) and avoid the burden proof.

As an independent point….

Even if you win this semantic game and show that you don’t*** have*** to provide an alternative, shouldn’t you be interested in providing the alterative anyway?

I mean if I make a crazy claim like the “geocentric model is the best model “ you would be happy to provide an alternative and show that this alternative is better………you wouldn’t try to avoid the burden proof with semantics and rhetoric and you wouldn’t be looking for excuses for not providing an alternative…………I wonder why you behave differently in the particular issue of the origin of the universe?

You really are acting like a guilty suspect who would rather to remain silent , because everything he says would be used against him

 

[YoursTrue]

You have wonder whether the smile is there to indicate a Poe or just one "unencumbered by the thought process" as Ray would say.

So see what you think -- smile or no smile -- do you think mankind can save the earth, and resurrect the dead? whatcha think? Smile or no smile...and I"m smiling here as I say it -- o clever one.

 

[GoodAttention]

Theists dislike the requirement of evidence for humans to decide a God.gods exist.

Why does this matter?

Atheists don't believe in anything in regards to what theists refer to as their God/gods concepts.

An atheist believes God is unknowable and cannot be rationalized.

You burdened atheists with a belief they don't have. What is your motive for this?

Explain to me what the burden is?

To rely of faith, and then claim God is knowable, it a distortion. At best the theist can know what they believe, but not know that the God exists as they imagine it.

You seem to have seen past the distortion.

But where it comes to religious beliefs there is a different set of standards for theists. To believe requires a suspension of reason and critical thought.

This is where you are monumentally incorrect and why I even bothered to reply.

You are putting yourself in a theists shoes and showing your complete lack of understanding regarding how a theists thinks or rationalizes God which is a weakness you should acknowledge.

Its is because of people like you I attempted this challenge in the first place.

 

[Pogo]

There is no doubt that mankind in ruining the earth. Do you think you can do something to reverse that? I'm sure I cannot. Although I follow rules about garbage disposal and things like that. I'm happy when my a/c keeps going and not happy when it isn't working. Yes, I look forward to God intervening as the Bible says He will. Have a good one as things go forth.

What is that story about a guy and St Peter where he asks why he didn't accept a ride from a lifeboat and the guy says I believed God would save me, and St. Peter says. "who do you think sent the lifeboat"

Sheesh.

 

[ratiocinator]

1 If you claim that common ancestry is the best explanation for genetic similarities in chimps and humans

2 and I reject your claim and claim that you are wrong…………I would be tacitly claiming that I have a better alternative

You really don't get how the 'burden of proof' works, do you?

If somebody claims that they have an explanation, then they have the burden to show why anybody else should take it seriously. If they come up with nothing, or something obviously flawed, contrived, or inadequate, then it can be rejected regardless of any other or 'better' explanation.

There is nothing wrong with rejecting all proposed explanations, and saying that there is no good reason to accept any of them. It then remains unknown.

ETA: Why is it that some theists seem to think people can't possibly just live with "I don't know"....?

 

[Pogo]

So see what you think -- smile or no smile -- do you think mankind can save the earth, and resurrect the dead? whatcha think? Smile or no smile...and I"m smiling here as I say it -- o clever one.

The earth is not going anywhere, the question is can we eat less beef and raise the thermostat a few degrees or are we going to wait St.Peter to ask us why we were so dumb.

And yes this is a part of trying to bring the brain dead back to some sort of life.

 

[ratiocinator]

An atheist believes God is unknowable and cannot be rationalized.

No. That's called agnostic theism.

 

[Valjean]

Why is this so hard to understand?

If you claim that God is not the best alternative, you are making a knowledge claim that has a burden........which is why you are expected to provide an alternative

No. Not accepting your claim is not an alternative claim.
Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[GoodAttention]

No. That's called agnostic theism.

No, that is a belief that God exists but is unknowable and cannot be rationalized.

Can you see the difference?

 

[Valjean]

Obviously not, as @YoursTrue and others claim the constant decline in our beliefs since some golden age are the cause of increasing crime.

https://static01.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/2024-07-02-rattner/d6005106-b577-4d57-a02f-3dd6ea801660/_assets/crime-600.png

Dots left to right 1991, 2020, 2024 est. headers are violent and property crimes per 100,000

Yet the happiest, lowest crime countries are the least religious ones.

 

[Pogo]

Why does this matter?

An atheist believes God is unknowable and cannot be rationalized.

Explain to me what the burden is?


You seem to have seen past the distortion.

This is where you are monumentally incorrect and why I even bothered to reply.

You are putting yourself in a theists shoes and showing your complete lack of understanding regarding how a theists thinks or rationalizes God which is a weakness you should acknowledge.

Its is because of people like you I attempted this challenge in the first place.

The question may be that you are dealing with the set who declines to believe in the unknown for lack of evidence without even getting to a discussion of whether it is unknowable.
Also the ability to rationalize does not imply the proper (generally accepted) use of reason in fact usually the contrary.


Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages ·
ra·tion·al·ize
/ˈraSHənlˌīz,ˈraSHnəˌlīz/
verb
1.
attempt to explain or justify (one's own or another's behavior or attitude) with logical, plausible reasons, even if these are not true or appropriate.
"she couldn't rationalize her urge to return to the cottage"

 

[YoursTrue]

The earth is not going anywhere, the question is can we eat less beef and raise the thermostat a few degrees or are we going to wait St.Peter to ask us why we were so dumb.

And yes this is a part of trying to bring the brain dead back to some sort of life.

Nope, that's not the question. It may be the question for you but not for me. Have a good one there!

 

[ratiocinator]

No, that is a belief that God exists but is unknowable and cannot be rationalized.

You said "An atheist believes God is unknowable and cannot be rationalized." You can't believe that God is unknowable or cannot be rationalised unless you accept that the word 'God' refers to something in reality.

An atheist doesn't accept that.

Can you see the difference?

No. They are exactly the same because of the use of the word 'God'. You can't make claims about how knowable or rationalisable something is, if you don't think it exists at all to know or be rationalised.

 

[Pogo]

Yet the happiest, lowest crime countries are the least religious ones.

That and a bunch more of curious examples of the disconnect from reality in his acceptance speech come from here.

Opinion | Don’t Take Trump’s Word for It. Check the Data.

Don’t Take Trump’s Word for It. Check the Data.

www.nytimes.com

Unfortunately the adage that you can't reason a person out of a belief they did not come to rationally seems still true.

 

[Valjean]

There is no doubt that mankind in ruining the earth. Do you think you can do something to reverse that? I'm sure I cannot. Although I follow rules about garbage disposal and things like that. I'm happy when my a/c keeps going and not happy when it isn't working. Yes, I look forward to God intervening as the Bible says He will. Have a good one as things go forth.

o hide your headiin the sand, do nothing, and wait patiently for God to intervene?

 

[Valjean]

There is no doubt that mankind in ruining the earth. Do you think you can do something to reverse that? I'm sure I cannot. Although I follow rules about garbage disposal and things like that. I'm happy when my a/c keeps going and not happy when it isn't working. Yes, I look forward to God intervening as the Bible says He will. Have a good one as things go forth.

So hide your head in the sand, do nothing, and wait patiently for God to intervene?