Atheists believe in miracles more than believers

[shunyadragon]

The same is true with testimonies, you can ask the witnesses about the ghost, I can ask them, Joe can ask them………….etc. we can all verify and see if the witness is reporting the same experience

Witness of things like ghosts that cannot be independently verified cannot be considered objective evidence. The same problem is the existence of unicorns, Orcs, Fairies,and Angels.

 

[shunyadragon]

Testimonies are expected/predicted if ghost do not exist………..therefore testimonies refute (at least a tiny bit-) the claim that ghosts exist

That is like being almost pregnant.

 

[YoursTrue]

You keep ignoring the fact that there is no "it" that we can find. There is only our logical need for there to be an "it".

We can't "see" God in our everyday life, that's for sure. Meaning that we cannot see His Person. Some of us, however, can see with our mind's eye the evidence for God.

 

[leroy]

Testimonies are expected/predicted if ghost do not exist………..therefore testimonies refute (at least a tiny bit-) the claim that ghosts exist

Why would testimonies be predicted, if ghost don’t exist?

 

[YoursTrue]

Witness of things like ghosts that cannot be independently verified cannot be considered objective evidence. The same problem is the existence of unicorns, Orcs, Fairies,and Angels.

I actually don't think unicorns were described in the Bible.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why would testimonies be predicted, if ghost don’t exist?

The only claim for the existence of ghosts is test

 

[shunyadragon]

I actually don't think unicorns were described in the Bible.

Actually?

unicorn in the bible - Google Search

The Hebrew word re'em (רְאֵם) is mentioned nine times in the Hebrew Bible and has been translated as "unicorn" in some versions, including the Latin Vulgate and the King James Version. However, other translations have used words like "oryx", "wild ox", "wild bull", "buffalo", or "rhinoceros". Modern translations often prefer "wild ox" (aurochs), which is considered the correct meaning of the Hebrew word. Some scholars, like Isaac Asimov and Natan Slifkin, have argued that the re'em was actually an aurochs.

The word "unicorn" may have also entered the Bible through the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament for Greek-speaking Jews. The Septuagint version of the passage uses the word monocadis, which is a combination of the prefix mono (one) and the word chaos (horn). In Latin, monocadis becomes yoona, which is the origin of the word "unicorn".

In Christian thought, the unicorn can symbolize purity, grace, and the incarnation of Christ, and is said to be an animal that can only be captured by a virgin.
https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&ictx=2&sa=X&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0ahUKEwjyw-_u2M-HAxVIhIkEHdTRGR4QPQgJ

​

 

[YoursTrue]

Actually?

unicorn in the bible - Google Search

The Hebrew word re'em (רְאֵם) is mentioned nine times in the Hebrew Bible and has been translated as "unicorn" in some versions, including the Latin Vulgate and the King James Version. However, other translations have used words like "oryx", "wild ox", "wild bull", "buffalo", or "rhinoceros". Modern translations often prefer "wild ox" (aurochs), which is considered the correct meaning of the Hebrew word. Some scholars, like Isaac Asimov and Natan Slifkin, have argued that the re'em was actually an aurochs.

The word "unicorn" may have also entered the Bible through the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament for Greek-speaking Jews. The Septuagint version of the passage uses the word monocadis, which is a combination of the prefix mono (one) and the word chaos (horn). In Latin, monocadis becomes yoona, which is the origin of the word "unicorn".

In Christian thought, the unicorn can symbolize purity, grace, and the incarnation of Christ, and is said to be an animal that can only be captured by a virgin.
Google

​

The first link you provide is interesting and of course has to do with translation. And what is also interesting is the idea as to what is considered the correct meaning of the Hebrew word. Some things are still, as they say, unverified in exactitude.

 

[ppp]

Why would testimonies be predicted, if ghost don’t exist?

As it turns out, funnily enough, humans are not perfect thinkers. They do and say incorrect things when they are either mistaken or dishonest. This mistaken part is a such a commonplace phenomenon that we put safety devices on all of our technologies to keep them from hurting themselves. The dishonesty part is such a commonplace phenomenon that we have an entire division of our judicial system dedicated solely to criminal and tort fraud. Which isn't even all of the fraud.

 

[gnostic]

You made a straw man, I corrected you and you repeated the same mistake…………….that is quite pathetic……..this is why internet atheist are a joke and a source of memes .

My question is very simple

If we have a hypothesis A

And we make an observation B

How can we know if this observation counts as evidence?.........what metric can we use-.--------------or if you don’t like the term “metric” what standard can we use?



As you can note, this has nothing to do with “measuring God” as you wrongly and dishonestly represented my argument

What are pathetic is that you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent what “metric” means.

Metrics are units of measurement, like measuring volume of liquid by “litre”, and not by “cubic metre”, ”litre” or the symbol of litre with the letter “l”, those would be the metric. For a empty space or solid object, then cubic metre or m^3 would be used as metric.

if you were to measure the mass of physical objects, then the metric would be “gram” or ”g”, or “kilogram” or ”kg”, or the “metric tonne“ which equate to 1000 kg. These would be what you would be your metric for measuring masses.

if you were measuring electricity through conductors, then you could measure the electric current, so your metric would be “ampere” or “A”.

Your silly hypothesis A & observation B example, provided no measurements at all. What are you measuring exactly? Unless you know what you are measuring, you cannot have any metric. It is utter meaningless to talk of using A & B when there are nothing to measure.

Without specifics (as in more information of what you are talking) in your example of hypothesis A & observation B, then I got absolutely nothing to work with. What exactly are you trying “TO MEASURE“?

There are no specific measurements in your example, so it is meaningless to ask for metrics.

Hypothesis A

Ghost exist in old houses

Prediction

If Ghost exists we would predict to see testimonies of people who life in old houses, who claim to have seen a ghost.

Those testimonies exist…………..therefore this is evidence according to your standard



I personally agree, and grant this standard, but given this standard, evidence for God would be very easy to provide

You expanded on your A & B, but you have picked the worse one.

There are no metrics for people’s testimonies.

Plus, testimonies of people seeing ghosts, are claims, not evidence. Claims are not evidence.

Testimonies or claims can be wrong, or be the act of wild imagination or delusion, or the people could be lying to gain fame, or so on. People lying, is the act of fraud. These claims cannot be measured.

Unless you can actually detect, measure & test the ghost itself, you have no evidence that a ghost even exists. There wouldn’t be any metric needed.

You need evidence to measure something against. If ghost is your example of evidence, then HOW do you measure a “ghost”?

The study of paranormal, like Parapsychology is not a scientific study, because it isn’t science. It is what we would call pseudoscience.

You have chosen to give poor examples.

 

[leroy]

As it turns out, funnily enough, humans are not perfect thinkers. They do and say incorrect things when they are either mistaken or dishonest. This mistaken part is a such a commonplace phenomenon that we put safety devices on all of our technologies to keep them from hurting themselves. The dishonesty part is such a commonplace phenomenon that we have an entire division of our judicial system dedicated solely to criminal and tort fraud. Which isn't even all of the fraud.

I am not following; I don’t understand your point

 

[shunyadragon]

The first link you provide is interesting and of course has to do with translation. And what is also interesting is the idea as to what is considered the correct meaning of the Hebrew word. Some things are still, as they say, unverified in exactitude.

Nonetheless the unicorn is a mythical figure described in the Bible and understood as that is what is described in both Judas and Christianity for over 2000 years, and depicted in pictures..

 

[ppp]

I am not following; I don’t understand your point

I suppose that technically the 8th commandment does allow one to bear false witness against oneself. And the Christian god is all about legal technicalities.

 

[leroy]

What are pathetic is that you continue to misunderstand and misrepresent what “metric” means.

Metrics are units of measurement, like measuring volume of liquid by “litre”, and not by “cubic metre”, ”litre” or the symbol of litre with the letter “l”, those would be the metric. For a empty space or solid object, then cubic metre or m^3 would be used as metric.

if you were to measure the mass of physical objects, then the metric would be “gram” or ”g”, or “kilogram” or ”kg”, or the “metric tonne“ which equate to 1000 kg. These would be what you would be your metric for measuring masses.

if you were measuring electricity through conductors, then you could measure the electric current, so your metric would be “ampere” or “A”.

Your silly hypothesis A & observation B example, provided no measurements at all. What are you measuring exactly? Unless you know what you are measuring, you cannot have any metric. It is utter meaningless to talk of using A & B when there are nothing to measure.

Without specifics (as in more information of what you are talking) in your example of hypothesis A & observation B, then I got absolutely nothing to work with. What exactly are you trying “TO MEASURE“?

There are no specific measurements in your example, so it is meaningless to ask for metrics.






You expanded on your A & B, but you have picked the worse one.

There are no metrics for people’s testimonies.

Plus, testimonies of people seeing ghosts, are claims, not evidence. Claims are not evidence.

Testimonies or claims can be wrong, or be the act of wild imagination or delusion, or the people could be lying to gain fame, or so on. People lying, is the act of fraud. These claims cannot be measured.

Unless you can actually detect, measure & test the ghost itself, you have no evidence that a ghost even exists. There wouldn’t be any metric needed.

You need evidence to measure something against. If ghost is your example of evidence, then HOW do you measure a “ghost”?

The study of paranormal, like Parapsychology is not a scientific study, because it isn’t science. It is what we would call pseudoscience.

You have chosen to give poor examples.

Congratulations…………3 straw man arguments in a row.

All I am asking is for a way to “measure” / determine if a given observation counts as evidence or not………. If you think “metric” is not the correct term, then use any other term that you think is more appropriate

Why is it so hard to answer?

It is my understanding that the term “metric” is appropriate in this context , but if I´m wrong, I´m wrong ….. I have no problem in admitting my mistakes

 

[leroy]

I suppose that technically the 8th commandment does allow one to bear false witness against oneself. And the Christian god is all about legal technicalities.

still not following

 

[ppp]

still not following

I don't believe you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nonetheless the unicorn is a mythical figure described in the Bible and understood as that is what is described in both Judas and Christianity for over 2000 years, and depicted in pictures..

I think you may have that wrong but I'll look at the scriptures that use the word, Hebrew and English. What I read about unicorns is that in the middle ages or something like that there was an idea that the horn carried a potent medication and it was very expensive, but it was probably a rhinoceros's horn.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nonetheless the unicorn is a mythical figure described in the Bible and understood as that is what is described in both Judas and Christianity for over 2000 years, and depicted in pictures..

the pictures evidently only show one side of whatever they think is the creature.

 

[gnostic]

Congratulations…………3 straw man arguments in a row.

All I am asking is for a way to “measure” / determine if a given observation counts as evidence or not………. If you think “metric” is not the correct term, then use any other term that you think is more appropriate

not strawman.

your examples were unclear. Unless you tell us exactly what you are measuring, you cannot use any metric.

and your last example, where you used ghosts in hypothesis A, are not something that you can actually measure. You cannot measure ghosts, so there are no possible metrics that you can used.

and testimonies are claims, and claims are not evidence, they are just words of someone’s opinions, and there are no metrics to be used on opinions.

you still don’t know what metrics are. All you’re doing is making up ridiculous scenarios, then demanding people to offer metrics.

there are no metric for people’s testimonials or claims. And there are no metrics for ghosts. You are being utterly absurd, & arrogant.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nonetheless the unicorn is a mythical figure described in the Bible and understood as that is what is described in both Judas and Christianity for over 2000 years, and depicted in pictures..

the pictures evidently only show one side of whatever they think is the creature.