Atheists believe in miracles more than believers

[YoursTrue]

My mistake…………wrong pronoun

See, how easy it is for me to admit mistakes?.................

How do you know that this person is a she?

All you have is her claims of she being a female, ………….. which used to be good enough evidence for me in the past…………………but then I was told by you and your fanatic atheist friends that “claims are not evidence”

I was thinking the same thing. How do 'they' know whether I'm male or female? Just because I may claim to be on these forums? hmmm....kind of like the way some people say oh yes, evolution is true because scientists say so. Even though they COULD BE WRONG... And, of course, the evidence is not there. Although they may claim it to be there.

 

[YoursTrue]

Only the bits you don't like

I am speaking of the conjectures regarding evolution. While there is DNA and RNA and flopping fish, there is simply no distinct evidence showing that fish evolved to become apes. It is all conjecture insofar as evolution goes. The theory of. You may say it's true, many scientists may say so, but -- that doesn't make it true.

 

[John53]

I am speaking of the conjectures regarding evolution. While there is DNA and RNA and flopping fish, there is simply no distinct evidence showing that fish evolved to become apes. It is all conjecture insofar as evolution goes. The theory of. You may say it's true, many scientists may say so, but -- that doesn't make it true.

Like I said the bits you don't agree with.

Nor is it false because you say so

 

[YoursTrue]

Only the bits you don't like

So produce the bits that you like. For the sake of others, in your own words as you understand the theory, showing, if you will (but you can't) how some fish morphed to become apes. You can't or won't do it. And neither can scientists, no matter how much you doth protest.

 

[John53]

So produce the bits that you like. For the sake of others, in your own words as you understand the theory, showing, if you will (but you can't) how some fish morphed to become apes. You can't or won't do it. And neither can scientists, no matter how much you doth protest.

No fish has ever morphed into an ape as I have explained to you numerous times.

 

[cladking]

So produce the bits that you like. For the sake of others, in your own words as you understand the theory, showing, if you will (but you can't) how some fish morphed to become apes. You can't or won't do it. And neither can scientists, no matter how much you doth protest.

Are you forgetting that according to believers every individual is the same species as its parent and therefore it follows that no fish can even morph into another fish!!!

To believe in science which is nothing but a methodology that employs experiment requires mental gymnastics. It requires miracle thought.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My mistake…………wrong pronoun

See, how easy it is for me to admit mistakes?.................

How do you know that this person is a she?

All you have is her claims of she being a female, ………….. which used to be good enough evidence for me in the past…………………but then I was told by you and your fanatic atheist friends that “claims are not evidence”

Oh please, you practically never admit mistakes. But I will break my rule, which I can when I want to.

This site used to have the stated gender of members as public information. I do not like to misgender people so I would regularly check the claimed gender of members. I want to make the same mistake often and assume that people that I am talking to are male. It is often an easy error to make. Especially in an area that is disproportionate in the gender of its members. But there are female members here and it is a good idea to never forget that.

 

[YoursTrue]

No fish has ever morphed into an ape as I have explained to you numerous times.

Oh you have, have you? So humans are not fish? And here so many claim humans ARE fish...me oh my!!

 

[gnostic]

Thanks for the cut and paste. Very well done. Cutting and pasting is a fantastic achievement. Especially for someone so well read enough to insult others at their pleasure to feel good.

So now, can you provide "evidence" that Noah's episode was without doubt copied from Gilgamesh, not that they were both copied from an older source from Iraq? Not conjecture, but "evidence".

You’re modern-day philistine, who ignored or have little knowledge of other prehistoric & ancient history & cultures that are not found in the Bible.

There are abundance of evidence, both literary evidence (texts that can be dated, on the materials they were inscribed on), arts and wares, architectural structures and urban towns and cities, prior to the Bronze Age in both Egypt and Mesopotamia, eg the Chalolithic period of the 4th millennium BCE, also known as Late Neolithic, where people made & use both stone and copper tools, a transitional period before sheltering and alloying copper with other metals to make bronze.

Primitive cuneiform inscriptions in Uruk, as early as 3350 BCE, were discovered at one of the Chalcolithic temples. More than a hundred archaic tablets as well as pottery were found in mudbrick building at Jemdet Nasr, hence the earliest Sumerian-proper period is dated between 3100 & 2900 BCE.

While the name Bilgames, the Sumerian name for the Akkadian Gilgamesh, don’t appear until the 22nd century BCE, Ziusudra the hero of flood story appear in the earliest surviving Instructions of Shuruppak was found in the Abu Salabikh tablet, dated to circa 2500 BCE. There may be no mention of the flood in the Instructions of Shurrupak, but Ziusudra do play part in another tablet that contain both creation of humans and flood story in 4 fragmented tablets.

Ziusudra sacrificing oxen to the gods, who smelled the burnt offerings from heaven, is similar to Noah’s sacrifice. Plus, the earliest Akkadian Epic of Atrahasis written during the old Babylonian period (tablets dated to around 1600 BCE), containing passage of releasing birds in 3 successive days, also reappeared with Utnapishtim doing the same thing, in 7th century BCE Nineveh copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh (tablet 10).

I have listed several translated sources, but you arrogantly ignored them. I owned those books I have listed, and I still have them. They are from the library Or something I just made up. The only in that that I don’t owned copies of , are those links I have provided.

there are zero evidence that Genesis were written earlier than 6th century BCE.

There are no stone or clay tablets, no parchments, papyri, papers, no inscriptions on walls of physical structures (houses, palaces, altars, tombs, etc, that quoted any passages of Genesis, Exodus or any other books that have been traditionally attributed to Moses, prior to the 6th century BCE. There are absolutely nothing in writings of Genesis that exist in the Early Iron Age (c 1050 - 600 BCE), Late Bronze Age (c 1550 - c 1050 BCE) or Middle Bronze Age (c 2000 - c 1550 BCE). These periods are mainly focused in the regions of Egypt & the Near East that include eastern Anatolia & the Mediterranean Levant to Elam in western Iran. The Bronze Age Aegean would include the Cycladic civilisation of the Cyclade islands, the Minoan civilisation of Crete and the Helladic civilisations of mainland Greece.

 

[John53]

Oh you have, have you? So humans are not fish? And here so many claim humans ARE fish...me oh my!!

And as I've also answered to that claim before... you either misunderstood what they said or are deliberately misrepresenting them.

 

[firedragon]

You’re modern-day philistine, who ignored or have little knowledge of other prehistoric & ancient history & cultures that are not found in the Bible.

There are abundance of evidence, both literary evidence (texts that can be dated, on the materials they were inscribed on), arts and wares, architectural structures and urban towns and cities, prior to the Bronze Age in both Egypt and Mesopotamia, eg the Chalolithic period of the 4th millennium BCE, also known as Late Neolithic, where people made & use both stone and copper tools, a transitional period before sheltering and alloying copper with other metals to make bronze.

Primitive cuneiform inscriptions in Uruk, as early as 3350 BCE, were discovered at one of the Chalcolithic temples. More than a hundred archaic tablets as well as pottery were found in mudbrick building at Jemdet Nasr, hence the earliest Sumerian-proper period is dated between 3100 & 2900 BCE.

While the name Bilgames, the Sumerian name for the Akkadian Gilgamesh, don’t appear until the 22nd century BCE, Ziusudra the hero of flood story appear in the earliest surviving Instructions of Shuruppak was found in the Abu Salabikh tablet, dated to circa 2500 BCE. There may be no mention of the flood in the Instructions of Shurrupak, but Ziusudra do play part in another tablet that contain both creation of humans and flood story in 4 fragmented tablets.

Ziusudra sacrificing oxen to the gods, who smelled the burnt offerings from heaven, is similar to Noah’s sacrifice. Plus, the earliest Akkadian Epic of Atrahasis written during the old Babylonian period (tablets dated to around 1600 BCE), containing passage of releasing birds in 3 successive days, also reappeared with Utnapishtim doing the same thing, in 7th century BCE Nineveh copy of the Epic of Gilgamesh (tablet 10).

I have listed several translated sources, but you arrogantly ignored them. I owned those books I have listed, and I still have them. They are from the library Or something I just made up. The only in that that I don’t owned copies of , are those links I have provided.

there are zero evidence that Genesis were written earlier than 6th century BCE.

There are no stone or clay tablets, no parchments, papyri, papers, no inscriptions on walls of physical structures (houses, palaces, altars, tombs, etc, that quoted any passages of Genesis, Exodus or any other books that have been traditionally attributed to Moses, prior to the 6th century BCE. There are absolutely nothing in writings of Genesis that exist in the Early Iron Age (c 1050 - 600 BCE), Late Bronze Age (c 1550 - c 1050 BCE) or Middle Bronze Age (c 2000 - c 1550 BCE). These periods are mainly focused in the regions of Egypt & the Near East that include eastern Anatolia & the Mediterranean Levant to Elam in western Iran. The Bronze Age Aegean would include the Cycladic civilisation of the Cyclade islands, the Minoan civilisation of Crete and the Helladic civilisations of mainland Greece.

This is not evidence that the Bible was definitely copied from Gilgamesh and that both of them could be from an older source from Iraq.

You are making conjecture mate. Similarity does not mean there could not be an older and singular source.

So provide evidence that the Bible was absolutely copied form Gilgamesh, and that they did not have a single older source, and that they are all myths.

it was you who made the claim. So it's your burden of proof.

 

[QuestioningMind]

It seems contradictory, but if you see it from this perspective you will understand:

A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.
An atheist believes that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way, obeying some natural laws that emerged out of nowhere, by themselves.

So who is the one who believes in miracles?

A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.

This sounds like a very strange definition of a miracle to me, since conscious individuals display their knowledge and power on a daily basis. It makes a miracle a rather common and mundane thing.

I'm an atheist and I don't believe that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way. I know plenty of atheists and none of them hold that belief. Why would you make a claim that is so demonstrably false?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A believer considers miracles to be the result of a display of knowledge and power on the part of a conscious person.

This sounds like a very strange definition of a miracle to me, since conscious individuals display their knowledge and power on a daily basis. It makes a miracle a rather common and mundane thing.

I'm an atheist and I don't believe that things that exist came out of nothing in a miraculous way. I know plenty of atheists and none of them hold that belief. Why would you make a claim that is so demonstrably false?

I think a real miracle would be a display of knowledge and power on the part of an unconscious person.

But there is always Weekend at Bernie's to confound my view.

Not all believers consider that definition makes any sense. I don't.

 

[YoursTrue]

And as I've also answered to that claim before... you either misunderstood what they said or are deliberately misrepresenting them.

Talk to them about it

 

[John53]

Talk to them about it

And how exactly will that help you understand or to stop misrepresenting them?

 

[YoursTrue]

So

So, as i said, i know of 32 hypothesis for how the universe came into existence. All of them have scientific or mathematical merit, if they are not feasible either mathematically or extrapolation from observed or well understood phenomena then they are simply not counted as scientifically possible.

And not one of them uses the get out for free card of "i don't know so god must've done it"

Not anyone else's god, or gods. There are around 3800 creator gods have been worshiped in the history of religion, which one do you think did It?

So 32 choices...

 

[YoursTrue]

And how exactly will that help you understand or to stop misrepresenting them?

Talk to those that say we are fish. Help them.

 

[John53]

Talk to those that say we are fish. Help them.

Do you bother reading what I write?

 

[cladking]

So provide evidence that the Bible was absolutely copied form Gilgamesh, and that they did not have a single older source, and that they are all myths.

The earliest copies of Gilgamesh are are gigantic mess (or gigamash). Most words are missing and readers can see anything they want. People just see what they expect and they expect literature where none may exist.

ETCSLhomepage

etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you bother reading what I write?

Depends. I have lots to read. Do you believe humans descended from some sort of fish by random mutations?