Atheists: Does Evolution Disprove the Existence of God?

[Doktor]

No it does certainly not.

It simply tells the story of past times and how our species came to be.

Any atheist using that as an argument has a problem.

 

[Humanistheart]

From another thread:



http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1711601-post22.html

Personally, I haven't seen any atheists make this argument, but I figured I would start a thread and simply ask the atheists of RF whether they have made the argument, or think, that if evolution is true, then god can't exist. So, atheists, do any of you agree with this statement?

I do not feel it proves a god cannot exist, but agree that it weakens the case for religions with literal creation doctrines and the like, it really depends on the religion and the religious view point. If nothing else I think evolution merely created a temporary challenge for some religions, before they incorporated it into their concept of how god works, and example of theological evolution I soppose.

 

[Humanistheart]

nothing in science even addresses god(s) (usually)

Usually not, although there was the paragraph in one of stephen hawkings books which he indicated there was no room for a creator god in this universe, although he gave a short but complex reason for this that I couldn't follow...

 

[MSizer]

There is nothing similar about an octopus and human eye. Humans don't have 8 arms and legs, we only have 2 of each.

But it sure would be cool if our limbs were lined with suction cups. Have you ever seen how gross an octopus attack is on a human? They wrap their tentacles around the back of your head and then pull your face toward their clamping beek. I'm thinking it hurts like hell.

 

[Madhuri]

Although many atheists have said that evolution does not disprove the existence of God, many have also said so (not talking about RF specifically). That is because many westerners seem to forget that Abrahamic religions are not the only religions out there. I used to debate with some atheists who could not get around the idea that God might be something entirely different to what the Bible says. They kept getting caught with this idea that if the Bible is wrong, then God doesn't exist and since evolution contradicts the Bible, then God doesn't exist.

I realise there are more intelligent atheists around and certainly plenty on RF. But I can relate to PureX's sentiments.

 

[Humanistheart]

That is because many westerners seem to forget that Abrahamic religions are not the only religions out there. I used to debate with some atheists who could not get around the idea that God might be something entirely different to what the Bible says.

I had that same problem with catholics in high school. They couldn't grasp that if a religion didn't center on a god that it was a religion.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"I believe in a real religion. You know, one with rules and things."

Ann Coulter

 

[Autodidact]

The definition of god doesn't really have any limits, so if someone claims that god's existence is outside of our Universe and not detectable, then it is outside of the realm of science, and it is impossible to tackle the question in a scientific way.

It'll be impossible for science to ever prove that god doesn't exist, because the definition of god makes it impossible. An all seeing god that exists outside our realm and is completely undetectable. All science can say is that there isn't any known evidence to suggest that an intelligent creator exists, or that one must exist.

And that's what people do with evolution. They just fit the definition of god around the science.

Of course, "exists outside our realm and is completely undetectable" is, for all intents and purposes, functionally equivalent to non-existent for me personally.

 

[Jose Fly]

I still haven't seen anyone really address this question...

What sort of god are you left with given the evolutionary history of life on earth and all its suffering, bloodshed, waste, and inefficiency?

 

[MSizer]

I still haven't seen anyone really address this question...

What sort of god are you left with given the evolutionary history of life on earth and all its suffering, bloodshed, waste, and inefficiency?

Augustine came up with the free will excuse 1700 years ago, and for those who didn't buy it, he also decided that we simply don't have the capacity to recognize the overall excellence of a divine plan which requires a certain amount of evil. He basically said that it is not true that the existence of suffering is in conflict with an omnipotent omnicious god on the grounds that suffering gives us the opportunity to better appreciate goodness.

The ultimate in stupidity of this nature has to be richard swinburne's attempt to rationalize god's failure to intervene in the holocaust.

By his logic I should go out and purposely get infected with HIV and Hep C so that I can have a better appreciation for health. Maybe I could bust a leg too, that would really help me appreciate good health. Better yet, I'll go drip some blood into sharkwater and then stick my a** in. Wow, this theological revelation is making my life so much better!

 

[Willamena]

I still haven't seen anyone really address this question...

What sort of god are you left with given the evolutionary history of life on earth and all its suffering, bloodshed, waste, and inefficiency?

A myth.

 

[Autodidact]

If you believe there is a God, I think it leaves you with a distant but impressive Deist God who set up the whole shebang, including the evolutionary process, which by its nature must include death and waste. This would be a mighty God, utterly unknowable to us, who created the very foundations of nature at its most fundamental level, gravity, electromagnetism, relativity, the whole schmeer, and much more that we do not know and possibly will never know, the power behind the mystery that is nature.

Of course, this God shows no particular interest in a single species on the surface of a sub-particle of a particle of Its magnificent creation, and certainly doesn't care what day you chant on or where you put your sexual organs.

 

[Storm]

*bites tongue*

I'd start a response thread, but it'd just go to crap like all the others.....

 

[ragordon168]

if god exists outside our realm and can never be detected/contacted by humanity then why pray to him for things? if he's not picking up the phone why keep calling him? or does it only work one way? - he can see in but we can't see out. because to me that means at one point in time humanity would find a way of getting through to gods realm/reality/dimension.

on the dimension thing string theory predicts that there are 10 dimensions which all interact ike vibrating strings (or something like that i dno) so do you thing 'god' could exist inside one of the 6 dimensions we cannot percieve?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

if god exists outside our realm and can never be detected/contacted by humanity then why pray to him for things?

By accessing the part of us [humans] that is also outside of the realm of scientific measurement [like the appreciation of art, music, novels, and drama].

 

[Jose Fly]

If you believe there is a God, I think it leaves you with a distant but impressive Deist God who set up the whole shebang, including the evolutionary process, which by its nature must include death and waste. This would be a mighty God, utterly unknowable to us, who created the very foundations of nature at its most fundamental level, gravity, electromagnetism, relativity, the whole schmeer, and much more that we do not know and possibly will never know, the power behind the mystery that is nature.

Of course, this God shows no particular interest in a single species on the surface of a sub-particle of a particle of Its magnificent creation, and certainly doesn't care what day you chant on or where you put your sexual organs.

This is the only response so far that isn't along the lines of what I tend to think, so it's the one I'll respond to.

When I see this sort of god proposed, I can't help but wonder why it's even proposed at all. Essentially, it hasn't done anything tangible in almost 14 billion years and we are of absolutely no importance to it. That, plus the total lack of evidence for such a thing and the fact that it's impossible to differentiate this sort of god from non-existence and I come back to...

....why posit such a god at all? What do you get out of it?

 

[Willamena]

if god exists outside our realm and can never be detected/contacted by humanity then why pray to him for things? if he's not picking up the phone why keep calling him? or does it only work one way? - he can see in but we can't see out. because to me that means at one point in time humanity would find a way of getting through to gods realm/reality/dimension.

on the dimension thing string theory predicts that there are 10 dimensions which all interact ike vibrating strings (or something like that i dno) so do you thing 'god' could exist inside one of the 6 dimensions we cannot percieve?

Because a "call on the phone" to "God" isn't an outside call (unless you've sincerely removed yourself from the world).

 

[Autodidact]

By accessing the part of us [humans] that is also outside of the realm of scientific measurement [like the appreciation of art, music, novels, and drama].

I'm pretty sure that several aspects of our appreciation of art are subject to scientific measurement.

 

[MSizer]

I'm pretty sure that several aspects of our appreciation of art are subject to scientific measurement.

They certainly are.

 

[Autodidact]

This is the only response so far that isn't along the lines of what I tend to think, so it's the one I'll respond to.

When I see this sort of god proposed, I can't help but wonder why it's even proposed at all. Essentially, it hasn't done anything tangible in almost 14 billion years and we are of absolutely no importance to it. That, plus the total lack of evidence for such a thing and the fact that it's impossible to differentiate this sort of god from non-existence and I come back to...

....why posit such a god at all? What do you get out of it?

Well, I'm an atheist, but this does seem to me the God you get left with. It's kind of a cool idea but would have no measurable impact on our lives.

Basically I think these deep origin questions are outside of the scope of what we're able to learn or know, at least right now and possibly ever, so I'm very agnostic toward them. I think all of us are entitled to squinch up our eyes and take a flying guess at what on earth it might be. To some, on an intuitive level, this is their best guess. For me, completely unknowable = the functional equivalent of non-existent (as I think I said earlier in this thread) so I'm a strong atheist. I positively assert that there is no God, because I think that God is defined as non-existent, which is to say utterly unknowable.