Dropship
Member
Nonchristians and atheists reject Jesus, so Jesus and God reject them, seems fair to me..
Jesus said- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)
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Atheists have faith.
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
Nonchristians and atheists reject Jesus, so Jesus and God reject them, seems fair to me..
Jesus said- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)
Nonchristians and atheists reject Jesus, so Jesus and God reject them, seems fair to me..
Jesus said- "Whoever rejects me rejects God" (Luke 10:16)
Good that you can judge others to reject them in the name of your god, makes Matthew 7:1-5 seem so useless
Dropship
Member
Whoa, 58 other gospels and writings never made it into the NT, how many more do you want?..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Marcion
Gospel of Basilides
Gospel of Truth (Valentinian)
Gospel of the Four Heavenly Realms
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Judas
Greek Gospel of the Egyptians
Gospel of Philip
Pseudo-Gospel of the Twelve
Gospel of Perfection
Jewish-Christian gospels
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazarenes
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Twelve
Infancy gospels[edit]
Armenian Infancy Gospel
Protoevangelium of James
Libellus de Nativitate Sanctae Mariae (Gospel of the Nativity of Mary)
Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
History of Joseph the Carpenter
Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Latin Infancy Gospel
Syriac Infancy Gospel
Gospel of the Lots of Mary (Coptic collection of 37 oracles; ca. A.D. 500)
Partially preserved gospels
Gospel of Peter
Gospel of Eve
Gospel of Mani
Gospel of the Saviour (also known as the Unknown Berlin gospel)
Coptic Gospel of the Twelve
Reconstructed gospels
Secret Gospel of Mark
Gospel of Matthias
Gospel of Cerinthus
Gospel of Apelles
Gospel of Valentinus
Gospel of the Encratites
Gospel of Andrew
Gospel of Barnabas – not to be confused with the 16th century pro-Moslem work of the same name
Gospel of Bartholomew
Gospel of Hesychius
Gospel of Lucius
Gospel of Merinthus
Gospel of the Adversary of the Law and the Prophets
Memoirs of the Apostles
Papyrus Egerton 2
Fayyum Fragment
Oxyrhynchus Papyri
Gospel of Jesus' Wife
Papyrus Berolinensis 11710
Papyrus Cairensis 10735
Papyrus Merton 51
Strasbourg Fragment
Gospel of the Seventy
Gospel of Nicodemus
Gospel of Barnabas
Whoa, 58 other gospels and writings never made it into the NT, how many more do you want?..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels
Gospel of Thomas
Gospel of Marcion
Gospel of Basilides
Gospel of Truth (Valentinian)
Gospel of the Four Heavenly Realms
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Judas
Greek Gospel of the Egyptians
Gospel of Philip
Pseudo-Gospel of the Twelve
Gospel of Perfection
Jewish-Christian gospels
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazarenes
Gospel of the Ebionites
Gospel of the Twelve
Infancy gospels[edit]
Armenian Infancy Gospel
Protoevangelium of James
Libellus de Nativitate Sanctae Mariae (Gospel of the Nativity of Mary)
Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew
History of Joseph the Carpenter
Infancy Gospel of Thomas
Latin Infancy Gospel
Syriac Infancy Gospel
Gospel of the Lots of Mary (Coptic collection of 37 oracles; ca. A.D. 500)
Partially preserved gospels
Gospel of Peter
Gospel of Eve
Gospel of Mani
Gospel of the Saviour (also known as the Unknown Berlin gospel)
Coptic Gospel of the Twelve
Reconstructed gospels
Secret Gospel of Mark
Gospel of Matthias
Gospel of Cerinthus
Gospel of Apelles
Gospel of Valentinus
Gospel of the Encratites
Gospel of Andrew
Gospel of Barnabas – not to be confused with the 16th century pro-Moslem work of the same name
Gospel of Bartholomew
Gospel of Hesychius
Gospel of Lucius
Gospel of Merinthus
Gospel of the Adversary of the Law and the Prophets
Memoirs of the Apostles
Papyrus Egerton 2
Fayyum Fragment
Oxyrhynchus Papyri
Gospel of Jesus' Wife
Papyrus Berolinensis 11710
Papyrus Cairensis 10735
Papyrus Merton 51
Strasbourg Fragment
Gospel of the Seventy
Gospel of Nicodemus
Gospel of Barnabas
Please provide verse numbers or text to identify which of these make the claim that Pilate tried to release jesus in order to help verify the claim in the bible.
Dropship
Member
Right, "Judge not that ye be not judged"
Anyway I'm not judging nonchristians and atheists (God himself will do that), I'm simply quoting what the bible says about them, so don't shoot the messenger..
For examp I'm an ex-convict (3 month vigilante rap in 2002), and in my younger days I used to go with prostitutes, but because I became a Christian, perhaps God will cut me some slack.
Right, "Judge not that ye be not judged"
For examp I'm an ex-convict (3 month vigilante rap in 2002), and in my younger days I used to go with prostitutes, but because I became a Christian, perhaps God will cut me some slack.
Anyway I'm not judging nonchristians and atheists, I'm simply quoting what the bible says about them, so don't shoot the messenger..
You very much appear to be judgemental in denying non christians. Assuming your god exists you have no idea whether he/she/it considers Christianity the right and proper path. What you do have is your personal opinion and one book written thousands of years ago by people with a vested interest in bigging up Judaism. Oh right, Judaism, not Christianity, they came later didn't they
I mentioned to you in a previous post why it was valuable to clearly define what it is you think atheists have that you are calling faith, and you declined. I suggested that the word is used to mean both justified belief and unjustified belief, and that conflating these would lead to confusion as it has.
Looking at the comments above, I still don't know what you mean when you use the word. Apparently, to you, it's what motivates people to be of service to others. You have also said that charitable giving is an act of faith. You add that faith includes love, empathy, and justice. And it's how people come to accept the theory of evolution. I can't even come up with a word for what you are calling faith.
So is being of service to others an unsupported belief? No, it's a belief that one can be helpful and that that is a good thing. I think the evidence justifies that belief.
Is giving money to charitable causes an unsupported belief. I don't see how. We just gave 100 dog collars to the local dog rescue and placement charity. We have good reason to believe that they will be used for the purpose intended, but also understand that other things are possible. Where's the faith in that?
No faith is required to accept the theory of evolution, however it does take faith to disbelieve it. And we do have a solid answer to the source of evolution - natural selection applied to genetic variation between generations.
I also mentioned the problem with ambiguity and equivocation if one is not clear about the distinction between justified and unjustified belief, and that's what's come to pass in this thread. You list a bunch of justified beliefs and call them by the same name as you do the unjustified beliefs, and conclude that we all have faith.
Incidentally, I don't have the same respect for unjustified belief that you do. It's really a big problem these days, especially in the States, where people believe that global warming is a hoax by faith, that vaccines are more dangerous than the coronavirus by faith, that the presidential election was stolen by faith, and a laundry list of other less important unjustified nonreligious beliefs such as a moon landing hoax and a flat earth.
We have religious faith to thank for the demonizing and marginalizing of atheists and homosexuals, for the persecution of LGBTQ, and for the threat of women losing the option of abortion - all predicated on religious faith.
I have done my level best to review what it is I believe and why, looking for beliefs that got into my head before I learned to think critically. For example, I noticed that my beliefs about ancestors who died when I was young or earlier was based in faith in the reports of my parents and older living relatives. Later, I learned that people embellish biographies of the deceased, and modified the belief to reflect that. Maybe they were all I was told they were, and maybe not. That went from insufficiently supported belief to a sound belief with that modification. It went from something that might be wrong to something that couldn't be wrong.
So although I don't know what it is you mean by faith, I did want to rebut the idea that atheists must live by faith, to let you know what that word means to much of your atheist audience, and why some might consider it offensive or naive for a theist to tell an atheist he indulges in unjustified belief. If that's not what you meant, then I suggest being more clear in defining your terms. You garnered a lot of hostility in this thread, and it's a good bet it's because you were misunderstood. You're normally a thoughtful and polite poster who doesn't evoke these reactions, so I assume that whatever it is you are saying is not what others are hearing.
Of course atheists might hold some faith-based thoughts as I have defined the word, but not necessarily, and it's not a part of atheism.
Dropship
Member
Matthew, Luke and John give pretty good accounts..
PS, as a feminist, I'd have thought you'd have liked Jesus, he always had time to chat with women-
At his execution some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans but women stuck with him to the end, it's almost as if he knew they'd be there for him, so he made sure he was there for them when he was alive-
Please attach this picture to every religious thread you come across in future! I love it!
Matthew, Luke and John give pretty good accounts..
PS, as a feminist, I'd have thought you'd have liked Jesus, he always had time to chat with women-
At his execution some of the disciples ran off in fear of the Romans but women stuck with him to the end, it's almost as if he knew they'd be there for him, so he made sure he was there for them when he was alive-
But they are all in the same book so as i said, your answer must be no.
Yes most men seem to have time to chat with women.
And what gives you the impression that I'm a feminist?
Dropship
Member
Dropship
Member
You know, I'm reminded of something that I read once -- just an odd little statistic, but I think a telling one.
In any one year during these first years of the twenty-first century, more books are translated into Spanish than have been translated into Arabic in the previous 100 years put together.
This means something, because during the Dark and Middle Ages, Islam basically saved classical knowledge, by translating the Greek and Latin books that were being ignored by Christians.
It makes me wonder what it is that caused Islam to stop looking outward altogether.
Well according to your profile you hang in the Feminist DIR sub-forum..
Good detective work. Actually a rarely visit that dir, there is little new stuff posted on it.
Islam was so forward, hungry for knowledge then around the time of the Mongol invasion ot turned in on itself.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay, you asked for it.But all the other founders of other religions were not Christians, and as heaven is a "Christians Only" gated community, they can't be up there or it'd be a case of "oops there goes the neighbourhood"..
Now I have some funny Baha'i jokes about heaven, and who is actually 'up there.'The jokes were passed along to me by Dale, a Baha'i who used to own a forum I posted on.
Dale said: In response to that last paragraph (about everyone thinking only "their crowd" will go to heaven), I'd like to offer two Baha'i jokes that I heard years ago. They mix Christian imagery with Baha'i concepts, but they're fun.
A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. "Heaven," St. Peter says, "is like a huge mansion, with lots of rooms in it. Here, for example, is the room where all of the Jews stay." He opens a door and lets him look inside, where a great many Jews are living.
"Over here," St. Peter says, "is where the Muslims stay." Again, he opens the door and lets the Baha'i look in for a few minutes. "This next room is for the Buddhists." Again, he is shown a room full of people. This goes on for a time, until St. Peter suddenly urges him to remain quiet, and they tiptoe past one more door. Once they're past it, the Baha'i asks, "What's in there, and why do we have to be so quiet?"
"Ah," St. Peter says. "That's where the Christians live. They like to think they're the only ones up here."
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A Baha'i dies and is met at the Gates of Heaven by St. Peter, who welcomes him and offers to show him around to get him oriented. To make this short, I'll just say he goes through the same deal as in the previous joke, except he gets to see the Christians. Finally, they come to one last door, which St. Peter opens. "This was built for the Baha'is," he says. But when the Baha'i looks in, he finds that the room is empty!
"Oh no!" he cries. "This can't be! How can I be the only Baha'i here??"
"Calm down," St. Peter says. "The Baha'is are all off travel teaching in hell."
Is it any wonder that Christianity is in decline teaching such hateful untruths as that.
Well, if you think hateful rubbish is good for what ails ya...as all too many Christians of my experience do...
