ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Which is pretty much what I said. It was @TransmutingSoul that claimed they were attributes of religion in general.
I didn't.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Atheists have faith.
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
Which is pretty much what I said. It was @TransmutingSoul that claimed they were attributes of religion in general.
I didn't.
That is the great thing, we all get to see faith or life, relative to our understanding.
Equality of men and women, good or bad?
Elimination of Predudices, good or bad?
Elimination of war and its weapons, good or bad?
Fostering the unity of the Human race, good or bad?etc
I am sure I can find passages in other scriptures that will reflect these virtues.
Gender equality for instance in the Bible.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman;
Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Same as the rest, Christ offered peace, to turn the other cheek, but at the same time, Jesus also knew it was not going to be accepted, that people would still turn against each other.
So one may not find the exact same words, but one will find the same attributes.
Regards Tony
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
As I said, even if these are attributes of your faith, that doesn't make them attributes of religion (more generally). See #380.
PureX
Veteran Member
Labeling energy, "energy", neither explains it nor negates it as part of the creative source of all that is. And there is also that source "code": the mysterious limitations that control the ways that energy is being expressed, and the ways that it's not. We do not understand these things, but we can logically reason them to be the creative source of all that is. What you think proof has to do with any of this is a mystery to me. Everything that exists is the 'proof', and logical reasoning is the method by which we draw the conclusion. That the conclusion is inconclusive is simply a fact of our own human limitations.
There is order, and order implies an intended goal. Everything that exists does so because of this order. The fact that the everything breaks down and makes way for new things to come into being is part of that order, and thereby presumed to be part of the intent of that order. To presume that such complex organization could happen without a creative (and probably intentional) source is simply not logical, as there is no evidence of this ever happening anywhere within existence as we know it.
Yes, they do it all the time.
Your too hung up on rejecting the idea that the creative force(s) that are at the source of all that exists (as we know it) might be intelligent, and might express intent. When in fact, it is logical to presume so, even though we cannot prove it. It is far less logical to presume that such a complex organized result as existence could have somehow, magically and spontaneously, just popped into being from nothing, and for no reason at all.
Your opinion is noted
Like magic, or convenience, not sure which
I believe misogyny is everyones problem
I think if I showed you 100 quotes from 5 different Holy books, all pointing in the same direction, you would say the same thing.
I will leave it at that
Regards Tony
That is all gleaned from the Baha'i Writings, it is just my opinion gleaned from those Writings, which I investigated for myself. Of course your mileage may vary from mine.
Ok
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Energy is a scientific term which is both defined and understood by science. Using it outside of that context is confusing at best, and potentially misleading.
Where is the logical reasoning, then?
Only by begging the question.
Baseless assertion leading to an infinite regress.
On the contrary, there is plentiful evidence of complexity arising from simpler systems without any creative intention.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Of course. Selecting quotes from five different books is still a tiny subset of religion as a whole. It's also quite possible to find quotes that suggest the opposite of what you are claiming. For example, how about this for equality between men and women:
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Or this for the elimination of war and weapons:
Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the Lord sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Last edited:
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
This deflects the point assuming everyone is blind and disregard the convo out of ignorance. It's very inappropriate.
But I was referring to asking me to prove his doesn't exist in light that you can prove it does.
I understand God as an experience but most talk of God as a being or entity not a spiritual awakening everyone is blind unless they open eyes to a specific god.
Do you believe God/creator is a deity?
This "experience" can do, speak, and send manifestations.
Usually you can experience what people call spirit but that's not the same as experiencing a being.
(Feeling a mother's love isn't feeling the mother herself)
Also,
Do you believe there is a difference?
What is absurd about pointing out referring to gods doing things when gods aren't known to exist is no different than referring to elves doing things?
If you can prove it to yourself but other, more competent thinkers aren't convinced like you are, then there is a problem with your thinking process.
Your investigation should include looking into the evolutionary and biological components to why people end up believing in religious ideas like a God. That will give you insight into your own motives to conclude weak evidence is adequate to convince YOU.
Then how can an ordinary mortal like yourself ever decide a god does exist? How would you know?
That seems to be part of why it's not growing very fast.
But why would religions have laws at all? Does it not trust it's believers?
That's how the 9-11 hijackers justified their flying planes into buildings. See how easy it is to subvert one's moral sense to religious dogma? That is why it is dangerous.
PureX
Veteran Member
It is not known what existed prior to the big band, or even what it means to say something existed. But whatever it was, we have to assume the Big Bang originated within it, and thereby everything that exists, now.
We do not know what space-time is expanding into, but whatever it is, it would have to redefine existence as we conceive of it.
So ascribing events or even intention to something that we don't even know to exist, or how it could, is unavoidable.
Energy isn't a creative force. It's just material. This material behaves according to the laws of physics.
There is no source code. Matter just behaves according to the laws of physics. That humans have applied religious meaning over the descriptions of reality tells us more about these humans than reality.
If the limitation is how some humans have to distort the mundane facts of reality because it doesn't satisfy their need for meaning nor soothe their anxiety about death, then I agree. A detached understanding of how tings are true is a stark slap in the face for those who can't manange their anxiety about death and oblivion.
It sure wasn't quartets or orchestras.
What it known is that there was a singularity. This mass of energy existed and expanded. We only know what happened 1/43 of a second after the expansion began.
That is a safe bet because there is evidence of what happened. And we know energy exists.
Well it's not changing what we know of ourselves. It's only what we know of cosmology.
Sure it is. Unless you really, really want to believe elves caused the universe to expand for some personal reason.
Science has no obligation to assume religious concepts, only some theists do.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
We don't know that "prior to the big bang" refers to a time at all - it could be a meaningless phrase.
Space doesn't need anything to expand into. That's a simplistic misunderstanding.
It obviously isn't. We can come up with conjectures, like something existing prior to the BB or some higher dimensional space that our space-time might be embedded in, but nobody is going to take them seriously unless you have some justification for said conjectures.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know you said that. I know that is what Tony said, but I disagree that they were attributes of the religion in general.
I know you didn't say that. I was saying IF you said that.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So do I.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God is known to exist by some people.