Atheists - how did you come to be?

[amorphous_constellation]

No.

You don't get to make up excuses for perverting context.

I understand context to actually be preceded in the grand scheme of ontology.

There is no bigger picture when perverting context

If you want to communicate this properly, you simply state our bodies are made up from atoms created in the explosion of stars in our universe.

The bigger picture gets so vast in its image that it - in and of itself - eliminates the context.

Imagination, nothing more.

Do you understand what "provide credible sources even means? "

At a certain point we are the credible source. I think, therefore I am, therefore I am most assured of myself as some kind of source. Where else in human monkey kind am I supposed to go?

 

[outhouse]

At a certain point we are the credible source

Hubris

 

[Blackdog22]

The most honest response one can give is to say they don't know how we came about.

As far as any idea that life couldn't of come about on it own, or the Universe couldn't of come about on its own, but instead some infinite being could of is so backwards logically that its laughable if you think about for it a few minutes. The possibility that any major "God created us" religions are true would be to accept that square circles also exist on a logical level. Its simply not possible and makes no sense beyond the use of conjuring up fantastical ideas involving magic, which of course is also ridiculous.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Hubris

There's no pride or self confidence involved, when it comes down to it, you simply know the most about this experience of reality as the one experiencing of it. You can cite whomever you want, you're still not experiencing what they are. For that, you must rely on the self alone.

The most honest response one can give is to say they don't know how we came about.

As far as any idea that life couldn't of come about on it own, or the Universe couldn't of come about on its own, but instead some infinite being could of is so backwards logically that its laughable if you think about for it a few minutes. The possibility that any major "God created us" religions are true would be to accept that square circles also exist on a logical level. Its simply not possible and makes no sense beyond the use of conjuring up fantastical ideas involving magic, which of course is also ridiculous.

Well, we are backwards logically. Think about it: what is the one thing human beings have been the least good at? Historically, that would be attaining the truth. How is it that it does not come naturally to us? Why should conscious minds placed somewhere in a random galaxy struggle so much with the ontology and epistemology of the universe?

 

[Milton Platt]

Now honestly if you think about this hard enough, something about the fact that you came to be at all will strike you as bizarre. You know not what occurred before you became, nor do you know how this occurred, why, or ultimately where you are going. However, you can now definitively say that you are, you have become the singularity, your individual telos has found residence in the flesh of an animal. Here you sit, reading this, converting light and color, shape and sound, sending a will to magically type your response. Fingertips and hands, to you alone they are enslaved. Your attention if divided can be trained into submission. You read this and wonder immediately what you can say to ameliorate the sudden existential discord, the fact that the curtain can be pulled on your certainty.

So how did you come to be? Was it karma, the negative and positive energies of your soul swirling in the firmament to reside in a host, was it a slighted god, molding you like craft-work. Was it a random conflux of hidden energies that happened with a probability never to be repeated, a quarky buildup of matter so random it would take a trillion dice? Who's to say you will not immediately occur again when a new pilot is required for some random new brain in the universe. Most likely that is what will happen. Once you land in an immortal coil as opposed to a mortal one, you might not have to keep reincarnating. Though I would argue at this stage that you are clearly constantly incarnating. You can say with certainty that you most likely had a long string of failures to find an immortal host, or if you ever could not age, you must have accidentally died.

The only way you could stop coming to be is if there was never again a seat to be filled. You clearly were not in the very beginning, or most likely were not, but no vacant seat is left open when they are built. If there were a trillion situations where consciousness could reside and over time that was subtracted to nine hundred ninety-nine billion nine hundred ninety-nine million nine hundred ninety-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine, perhaps one less soul that kept recycling could exist, or their incarnation would be put on hold. Of course no time would pass for the soul once it is waiting. And to finish, I myself am a atheist/agnostic, but I know this cannot be the first time I was, or is it likely it will be the last time I will be.

Um, do some reading on abiogenesis and evolution, then perhaps read a bit about how mammals give birth, and you will have how I came to be.
See, that wasn't hard!

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Um, do some reading on abiogenesis and evolution, then perhaps read a bit about how mammals give birth, and you will have how I came to be.
See, that wasn't hard!

I find it pretty remarkable that a planet able to foster biology seems culminate in creating conscious observers of the universe, right out of thin air. We feel secure here on earth at this specific millennia, in these specific bodies, perceiving very specific things. However, there is no reason that the observer that I am could not have landed in any other brain that has the plug in for it. That's why I think there is probably a science to reincarnation, along with the science to abiogenesis and evolution. Our souls are continually sucked down from the aether into minds capable of holding them.

 

[outhouse]

I find it pretty remarkable that a planet able to foster biology seems culminate in creating conscious observers of the universe, right out of thin air.

If you studied biology you would find it did not come out of air. But it did come out of water with millions of years of evolution.

 

[outhouse]

That's why I think there is probably a science to reincarnation,

Well there is not. Try again.

 

[outhouse]

Our souls

Are mythology by scientific standards.

If you start with the conclusion they exist, you can do no credible work in the field.

If this mythological concept existed in nature and had physical control over thought in the human brain, IT WOULD BE OBSERVED. But since it doesn't exist scientifically there is nothing to detect.

Your biggest problem to overcome is the mythological origins of said concept. Well that and all conscious thought is now seen in the brain, and questions can be asked and scientist can see the answer before the test subject even knows what it is. In other words, all thought exist ONLY in the human brain.

 

[Milton Platt]

Ah, but your consciousness it is quite obvious, resides within you. It is almost a separate organism, a completely transferable phenomenon, for if you were to wake up in the body of another it is merely a changing of your point of view. Do you argue that your awareness merely springs from your brain, that mind and brain are one? Sure, the brain is the hardware that turns the power on, but what comes on is clearly an operator of it.

Being conscious is a result of brain activity. Kill the brain and see what happens......
You will have to provide evidence to back your unsubstantiated claims that the brain has some sort of operator. Science points the other way, sorry. No, mind and brain are not one. One springs from the other.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Your biggest problem to overcome is the mythological origins of said concept. Well that and all conscious thought is now seen in the brain, and questions can be asked and scientist can see the answer before the test subject even knows what it is. In other words, all thought exist ONLY in the human brain.

Being conscious is a result of brain activity. Kill the brain and see what happens......
You will have to provide evidence to back your unsubstantiated claims that the brain has some sort of operator. Science points the other way, sorry. No, mind and brain are not one. One springs from the other.

Mind is like water as earth is to like the brain. A depression in the earth makes a good vessel to hold a lake. Where there is a desert, oftentimes however there is a dry arroyo. The brain is like this vessel that is filled with the lucidity of consciousness, from a river with headwaters elsewhere. Just as the lungs capture oxegyn or the stomach captures food, or the liver filters toxins from the blood, so does a brain capture something from the outside.

 

[outhouse]

so does a brain capture something from the outside.

It catches nothing that does not exist.

It only absorbs the environment through the body, nothing more.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

It catches nothing that does not exist.

It only absorbs the environment through the body, nothing more.

Like air going into the lungs, so does consciousness rest in the brain, from the external to the internal.

 

[outhouse]

Like air going into the lungs, so does consciousness rest in the brain

from the external to the internal

Bunch of unsubstantiated rhetoric with no basis outside mythology fantasy and imagination.



Its why you don't ever supply credible sources, you would have to possess them first

 

[Milton Platt]

Mind is like water as earth is to like the brain. A depression in the earth makes a good vessel to hold a lake. Where there is a desert, oftentimes however there is a dry arroyo. The brain is like this vessel that is filled with the lucidity of consciousness, from a river with headwaters elsewhere. Just as the lungs capture oxegyn or the stomach captures food, or the liver filters toxins from the blood, so does a brain capture something from the outside.

Dude....I asked for evidence, not a restatement of your unsubstantiated beliefs. I already understand what you believe.......the question is what do you KNOW???

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Dude....I asked for evidence, not a restatement of your unsubstantiated beliefs. I already understand what you believe.......the question is what do you KNOW???

Actually, I believe as you wrote in your last post. Mind and brain are not one. However I don't think it is just some chemical reaction that occurs which results in a conscious observer. For example, and to speak to what is evident in the case of the body, the brain is part of a system. All the organs ultimately power the brain, all the extremities localize its power, as well as speech, and the sense hookup to the brain to ultimately provide feedback for conscious.

Now, what is also apparent is that at no point is consciousness naturally aware of the goings on of what is needed to trap it. The physical needs and limits of the human brain and body are discovered at some point while we are alive. The non-intuitive nature revealed in the experience of having a body shows that the mind is bonded with something it is uncomfortable with. A necessary setback? Or is it something that the mind has the ability to overcome? We can clearly imagine ourselves to be in better shape than we are now. In fact, it seems like all human imagination fixates on the idea of trans-humanism on some level. Evident enough in my perspective is the postulation that this actually means something.

This is getting to be sort of a long thread. Maybe your question was answered earlier if this isn't what you wanted?

 

[outhouse]

Mind and brain are not one

They factually are one in the same.

 

[outhouse]

Dude....I asked for evidence

He knows he has NONE, so please don't hold your breath.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

They factually are one in the same.

What about the brains of animals, how come they don't possess our kind of mind? A brain gaining mind is analogous to lungs being able to produce their own air, or a stomach gaining its own food.

 

[outhouse]

w come they don't possess our kind of mind?

Who says they don't?