Atheists: If God existed would God……

[lukethethird]

I have knowledge, just not factual knowledge. All knowledge is not factual.

Knowledge is factual, all you have is belief, no facts or knowledge required, just belief.

 

[epronovost]

All knowledge is not factual.

Technically yes. You have knowledge about scriptures and scriptures are a set of beliefs. Those beliefs aren't knowledge about the world though for they are not facts, nor accurate information nor skills.

knowl·edge
/ˈnäləj/
noun

1. 1.
   facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

 

[Trailblazer]

A probabilistic argument would require you to have data would be basically impossible in that specific case.

Sorry, I do not understand what you are getting at.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I had to post my thread in the most appropriate forum, but that does not mean I want to argue with atheists. Did you see my OP? Does that look like I am looking for an argument?

If you post a question in General Religious Debates forum then it is natural that there will be answers and counter-questions. The questions that you asked were such that they led to a debate. If you were not looking for a debate, then you should have asked the question in some other forum. This forum was certainly not appropriate for your questions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Knowledge is factual, all you have is belief, no facts or knowledge required, just belief.

Sorry, not all knowledge is factual.

Does knowledge have to be factual?

Knowledge is always a true belief; but not just any true belief. (A confident although hopelessly uninformed belief as to which horse will win — or even has won — a particular race is not knowledge, even if the belief is true.) Knowledge is always a well justified true belief — any well justified true belief.

Knowledge | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

 

[Trailblazer]

If you post a question in General Religious Debates forum then it is natural that there will be answers and counter-questions. The questions that you asked were such that they led to a debate.

I did not want a debate, I just wanted answers to my questions in the OP, and very few people answered them.
It is not my fault it led to a debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

Technically yes. You have knowledge about scriptures and scriptures are a set of beliefs. Those beliefs aren't knowledge about the world though for they are not facts, nor accurate information nor skills.

knowl·edge
/ˈnäləj/
noun

1. 1.
   facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

Definition of knowledge

1a(1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

(2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique

b(1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something

(2) : the range of one's information or understanding answered to the best of my knowledge

Definition of KNOWLEDGE

 

[lukethethird]

It is a belief that God is a mystery. A belief can be either true or false.

Then it is foolish to believe

Sorry, not all knowledge is factual.

Does knowledge have to be factual?

Knowledge is always a true belief; but not just any true belief. (A confident although hopelessly uninformed belief as to which horse will win — or even has won — a particular race is not knowledge, even if the belief is true.) Knowledge is always a well justified true belief — any well justified true belief.

Knowledge | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy

You don't have a justified true belief, you just have a belief, no justification or truth required, just a belief.

 

[Heyo]

Nobody can "manage on their own".
It is an illusion. We need others.
..particularly when we become old and decrepit.

Needing others is not the same as needing an invisible friend.

 

[lukethethird]

Definition of knowledge

1a(1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

(2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique

b(1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something

(2) : the range of one's information or understanding answered to the best of my knowledge

Definition of KNOWLEDGE

None of which is required for you to believe in God, you just have a belief.

 

[Heyo]

Christianity is dying but may be around for sometime yet. I don't think Baha'i will get to the lofty heights of Christianity or even Islam. But may merge with other religions, perhaps a modified Christianity or Buddhism. Loose its identity but become a part of a new religious movement.

They never merge.
Religions are branches on a tree like species are on the tree of life. Hybridization is extremely rare. Being able to merge requires to be able to admit that they have been wrong in one aspect or another. The moment that happens, religion acquires the explanatory powers science has and I lose one of my best arguments against religion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is not my fault it led to a debate.

It is your fault that you put the questions in General Religious Debates forum. The question perhaps should have gone to Seeker's Section in Interfaith Discussions or in Non-theism section of the Theological Concepts; or even better there is a forum for atheists. You could have asked them there directly.

 

[Heyo]

Of course religious people do not agree and that is because religions are different, so religious people have many different different beliefs about God. The reason there are many different religions is because religions have been revealed throughout the ages and what was revealed in different ages to different people was not exactly the same. To add to that, what was revealed by God was changed by man and there was no written Covenant so all these religions split into thousands of sects, each with different beliefs about God. Even within Christianity we not only have Trinitarians, there are other kinds of Christians who believe various things.

Ideally, everyone would agree on who God is but that is impossible since so many people cling to their own religious traditions and their own beliefs about God. Only if religions united under one common banner would that be possible to agree about God, and I believe that will happen in the future since Baha'u'llah wrote that is what God has ordained, and what God ordains always comes to pass eventually.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91

Until religions unite religious people will just have to hold contradictory beliefs.

The Messengers did not reveal confusing and contradictory messages. Religions are different so religious beliefs are also different. One reason that religions are different is because the world changes dramatically over time and people also change over time as they evolve spiritually. As such the message from God cannot be the same in every age and still be useful to the people to whom it is revealed. Revelations from God are always suited to the needs of the people and the times.

As humanity evolved sufficiently to be able to understand that that there is only one true God, not many gods, the message about who God is has been consistent, from the Old Testament through the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. The fact that Christians misinterpreted the scriptures and created a false doctrine of the Trinitarian God is not a reflection on the Messenger method of communicating with humans.

I just answered @ChristineM in post #331. Merging of religions would make me rethink my position.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, but this is about hypothetical questions. We're being asked to imagine characteristics in the event of something happening or being true.

Yes, since you are atheists who do not believe that God exists, you were being asked to imagine if God would do #1 or #2 if God exists.

You need to be careful with the wording here. "If God exists" is a statement about what actually is. "If God existed" is a hypothetical question about what could have been.

That is a fine distinction but I understand your point. Then I should have worded by OP If God exists because that is what I meant to convey. If God actually does exist, would God...
So I was thinking in terms of if God actually does exist, NOT if God might exist.

1. If God exists would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God exists would God prove that He exists to everyone?

Trailblazer said: If people say that God has not communicated to them then we can logically deduce that if God exists God would not communicate directly to everyone...

That logic is wrong. You are assuming that if God did exist, the world wouldn't be any different to how is actually is.

Perhaps the reason you are assuming that the world might be different if God exists is because you do not believe that God exists.
Perhaps the reason I am assuming that the world would not be different if God exists is because I believe that God exists.

However, the world is what it is, whether God exists or not.

If God exists we have believers and atheists.
If God does not exist we have believers and atheists.
If God exists there is no evidence that God has ever communicated directly to everyone.
If God does not exist there is no evidence that God has ever communicated directly to everyone.

It is possible to conceive of a god which would communicate it's existence to everyone in the world. That would be a very different world to the one we know, which is how we know that type of god doesn't exist, but it could have existed.

The kind of God that would communicate directly to everyone cannot exist, since there is no evidence that any God has ever communicated directly to everyone in the world.

My logic is correct. There cannot be a God who would directly communicate it's existence to everyone in the world because there is no evidence that a God has ever done that.

Put another way, if a God exists that has communicated directly to everyone then everyone in the world would be able to testify that God has communicated to them. Everyone has not testified to that so that is how we know that if a God exists it does not communicate directly to everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then it is foolish to believe

What is foolish to you is not foolish to me.
To me it would be foolish not to believe in God.

You don't have a justified true belief, you just have a belief, no justification or truth required, just a belief.

What is justified as a true belief to me is not justified as a true belief to you.

What amazes me is that atheists have not figured this out by now.
All they can see is what is justified for them, not another person's perspective.
I understand why atheists do not believe in God but they cannot understand why I believe in God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Needing others is not the same as needing an invisible friend.

That invisible friend is sometimes better than the visible friend.

 

[Trailblazer]

None of which is required for you to believe in God, you just have a belief.

A belief that could be true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Being able to merge requires to be able to admit that they have been wrong in one aspect or another.

I believe that will happen eventually. I wish I could live long enough to see that day but I won't.

 

[Trailblazer]

It is your fault that you put the questions in General Religious Debates forum. The question perhaps should have gone to Seeker's Section in Interfaith Discussions or in Non-theism section

What, and miss out on all this fun? No, I put it here because this is where there is the most traffic.
A vendor does not set up shop on a vacant street corner.
This is the most fun I have had in weeks, maybe months. I love talking to atheists, and the more the merrier.
I rarely laugh, but I have been laughing off and on since I posted this yesterday.

 

[Trailblazer]

I just answered @ChristineM in post #331. Merging of religions would make me rethink my position.

What position? So do you agree that religions should merge?