Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Trailblazer]

Just like any other religion. "I believe I'm right and I believe everyone else will come to believe just like I do" - by magic?

I believe it will happen eventually, but not by magic, by free will choice. And I believe it will happen gradually.

Why don't religious people do the same? Because they don't want to come to the truth, they want to keep believing what they do. Show me a theist who honestly wants to know the truth and I show you a future Agnostic or atheist.

I fully agree. Religious people don't want to come to the truth, they want to keep believing what they do.

 

[Trailblazer]

You do not want to talk to people from other religions because they are mired in their beliefs. I wonder, with this view, how can you bring about a union of religions or world peace.

I am not trying to do that. That is a process that will happen on its own.

 

[Altfish]

Maybe, but what would He, why should He?

I doubt it, but even if He could, what would that accomplish?.

You mean because He is not doing what you want Him to do?

How can something that I don't believe exists do something I don't want it to?

 

[Aupmanyav]

That is a process that will happen on its own.

I believe that the opposite will happen. With advance of science, people are going to abandon God/Allah and beliefs about prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations and Mahdis, which have no factual evidence. And that is happening. You can fool some people for some time, but you cannot fool all people all the time.

 

[ChristineM]

The Baha'is carry that thing about Bible stories not being literal but symbolic all the way to Jesus and the resurrection. I have no problem believing that the flood or the resurrection never happened, but I do believe the writers wrote those stories to be taken and believed as having literally happened.

I can't see how the writers would have written a symbolic story about a flood and about Jesus coming back to life and not made it clear that the stories were symbolic and didn't really happen. But I can see how they could easily have written in made up stuff to embellish their stories with supernatural miraculous things about God and Jesus. I've never liked or agreed with how the Baha'i Faith makes so many things in the Bible "symbolic". I'd prefer if they just said it was lies.

Happens all the time in fiction.

 

[ChristineM]

because everyone in the world will recognize Baha'u'llah.

No. Won't happen

 

[muhammad_isa]

..With advance of science, people are going to abandon God/Allah and beliefs about prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations and Mahdis, which have no factual evidence. And that is happening. You can fool some people for some time, but you cannot fool all people all the time.

Absolutely. "Dajal rules OK"

..but how foolish mankind can be .. they cling on to false hope that materialism can save them from the doom which is upon us.

Nay .. it's what has got us into this mess in the first place.
Climate change cannot be reversed by materialism ..
..it's already gone too far .. war is inevitable.

 

[ChristineM]

I just answered @ChristineM in post #331. Merging of religions would make me rethink my position.

I am sure rethinki

They never merge.
Religions are branches on a tree like species are on the tree of life. Hybridization is extremely rare. Being able to merge requires to be able to admit that they have been wrong in one aspect or another. The moment that happens, religion acquires the explanatory powers science has and I lose one of my best arguments against religion.

Apparently miracles can happen. Or so we are told.

I see it as the only way religion will survive in the fairly distant future

 

[Aupmanyav]

Absolutely. "Dajal rules OK"
..but how foolish mankind can be .. they cling on to false hope that materialism can save them from the doom which is upon us.
Nay .. it's what has got us into this mess in the first place.
Climate change cannot be reversed by materialism ..
..it's already gone too far .. war is inevitable.

I do not believe in superstitions of ancient times. Difficulties are there and will always be there, unless a huge asteroid strikes the Earth (and we are not able to deflect it). That may certainly be the doom.
I do not see much mess around. We are managing nicely. Perhaps those who are poor today will be rich tomorrow (Mark Zukerberg lost to Mukesh Ambani and Gautam Adani of India in wealth). The number of poor also has decreased in India.
Climate change is certainly an area of concern and India is totally committed to it. The rich nations need to do something about it.
As for a WW III, I do not see it happening with nine nations sitting on their nuclear piles, regional skirmishes are immaterial.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I do not see much mess around. We are managing nicely..

"we" ?

..every man for themselves

 

[Aupmanyav]

I was generally talking about India.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

No, we are not required to believe that which is claimed in the total and complete absence of any supporting evidence. There is evidence that supports the beliefs.

Why, oh why, do so many people claim "there is evidence" and stop right there? Wouldn't it be better to lay out that "evidence" before us?

 

[Heyo]

I am sure rethinki


Apparently miracles can happen. Or so we are told.

I see it as the only way religion will survive in the fairly distant future

I see that moment clearly before me when there is only one religion on earth - the moment the last but one theist dies or deconverts.

 

[Polymath257]

I know atheists do not believe that God exists but this was a hypothetical question.

I asked atheists just to see what they would say and I wondered if any of them would figure out that this was a trick question.

What God would do is exactly what we have evidence for/what we can see that God has possibly done.
What God would not do is what we have no evidence for/what we all know that God has never done.

That means that God would never communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists, not unless you think that an all-knowing infallible God is going to suddenly realize that He made a mistake and do something differently.

Really, this was just a logical exercise, something to do on a cloudy day.

Except that it is *not* a trick question. The question is a serious one and it shows, I think, that the God many people imagine isn't real. As far as I can see, there is no way that a good, all powerful God would do what we actually see. Perhaps a creator God would, but people want to lump a lot of other properties onto creator Gods.

 

[Sheldon]

Atheists: If God existed would God do #1 or #2, as noted below?

These are two separate questions.

1. If God existed would God communicate directly to everyone?
2. If God existed would God prove that He exists to everyone?

I am not asking if God could communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.
I am not asking if God should communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone.

I am asking if God would God communicate directly to everyone or prove that He exists to everyone IF GOD EXISTED.

If you answer yes, please explain why you answered yes.
If you answer no, please explain why you answered no.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Which deity, and what objective evidence can anyone demonstrate that it exists, and what it's nature is?

Otherwise no answer is possible, only unevidenced assumptions and speculation. We would be dealing with hypotheticals. If a deity exists (as a hypothetical) how can we know anything about it, or what it might or might not do?

 

[Sheldon]

The one true God who created the universe.

That's not a definition, that's just a two unevidenced assertions.

 

[Sheldon]

God is an evangelist of himself. So he does let people know he exists. The very fact his words were recorded and preserved in the Bible is a testament to this fact.

That just another circular reasoning fallacy, the bible contains the claims, not evidence for the claims, it no more objectively evidences any deity, than the Harry Potter books evidence wizardry. If what you label a fact, was in a fact, then there wouldn't be so many different religions, and so many different deities, which paradoxically is precisely what I would expect to see if humans simply had a propensity for imagining deities and creating religions around those deities. I would also expect those religious texts to reflect the ignorance and prejudice of the humans who created them, and to reflect the cultures and epochs from which they originated, and of course they do.

 

[Polymath257]

For starters, I know God is immaterial and as such God cannot ever be seen.

How know that from just the assumption of a creator God?

 

[Polymath257]

I'd imagine there's several people right now that believe God has communicated with them. Even some of the Christians I knew felt as if God was communicating with them through the Holy Spirit. And then some had an "angel" visit them. But even for Baha'is to think that they won't get some kind of spiritual type of communication from God? I think they probably do. In fact, some Baha'is I know were visited by Abdul Baha' in a vision or a dream. Now whether or not any of that is real, is another question.

Exactly. Are the messages consistent? No. Are they even consistent within any particular faith? No.

If it is a God that is communicating, it is doing a very poor job of it.

 

[Sheldon]

I do not think it is impossible to answer. All we have to do is ask if God has proven that He exists to everyone or if God has communicated directly to everyone. If the answer is "no" that means that God would not do that if God existed. (Why God would not do that is another conversation.)

Hasn't done, and would not do, are not the same statement. Though again there is no objective evidence any deity has communicated with anyone.