Atheists: If God existed would God……

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: Ask yourself why you have to point out what you believe are my errors. What are you gaining by this?

Fun. Entertainment.

Oh I see. It is fun and entertaining to point out other peoples' errors. Gotcha.

 

[Trailblazer]

So if you see an orange on your kitchen table it is only your opinion that it is there?

That analogy does not fly because an orange is known to be orange and your personal opinion is not known to be true.

The implication is blatantly arrogant.
You just don't quit do you? I guess you must like the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah.

26: O SON OF BEING! How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 10

 

[Trailblazer]

Why are religious beliefs different from any other non-falsifiable belief?

I did not say that they are any different.

 

[F1fan]

I was a child. I didn't even know what "cognitive and behavioral sciences" were.

Then why were you deciding whether a God exists? Even well educated adults question this, and you were a child making this decision?

Initially, I didn't know anything else.
Then, as I say, I was well educated in the Bible at school.

So you were placed in a religious school as a child before you were educated enough in reason to assess whether what they were teaching you was correct, and not just dogma?

That was followed by a careless teenage period where I didn't stop believing in G-d, but had no particular creed.

Yes, you were probably questioning your own autonomy and authority. If you didn't;t have an education that prepared you for adult life you might have ended up confused at the end of your rebellious stage.

In my early twenties, I discovered the Qur'an.

Right, at some point rebellion gets boring and we want a stable framework to navigate life. We often refer back to what we are familiar with, and that tends to be what we were exposed to in childhood.

I've never looked back. It all fits neatly together and completes the theological jigsaw puzzle.

You never looked back? Then you used objective reasoning and facts to decide a God exists? Remember, you didn't explain that as your approach.

So, maybe you went back a bit more than you're admitting to? At least to yourself?

 

[F1fan]

That analogy does not fly because an orange is known to be orange and your personal opinion is not known to be true.

Your words on a computer screen are as real as an orange. A person can observe both and understand what is being seen.

 

[F1fan]

Oh I see. It is fun and entertaining to point out other peoples' errors. Gotcha.

Yes. Playing chess well is essentially pointing out your opponent's errors.

The advantage in chess is that you take the person's piece and they have no choice but to acknowledge it. In debate you can pretend you aren't getting your *** handed to you daily.

 

[ppp]

I did not say that they are any different.

Are they different?

 

[F1fan]

Oh I see. It is fun and entertaining to point out other peoples' errors. Gotcha.

I'm glad you finally admitted to making errors.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Then why were you deciding whether a God exists? Even well educated adults question this, and you were a child making this decision?

Children are innocent .. they are in a better position than adults to make such decisions.
They know little of adultery, homosexuality and money etc.

So you were placed in a religious school as a child..

No, I was not. All my teachers in secondary school were educated to degree level in their particular subjects.
In my day, Divinity was an important part of the corriculum, as political correctness had not yet commenced.

You never looked back? Then you used objective reasoning and facts to decide a God exists? Remember, you didn't explain that as your approach.

One doesn't need facts to believe that there is something responsible for existence.
However, one does need facts and reasoning in determining a creed. Experience, social interaction, education and travel all have a part to play.
I never looked back because I haven't found a good reason to believe that I am mistaken that the Qur'an confirms the Bible and is true.

 

[ppp]

Children are innocent .. they are in a better position than adults to make such decisions.
They know little of adultery, homosexuality and money etc.

Children are predispositioned to believe whatever their parents say. They don't believe that God exists because they have given it some rational thought. They believe that God exists because the adults in their world have told them. So. Which is the case for every other religion as well. It's not like 4-year-olds from Muslim families. Believe in the Christian God. Or that 4-year-old from Buddhist families believe in the Muslim God. Children believe because that's what their families believe.

 

[muhammad_isa]

They believe that God exists because the adults in their world have told them.

Rubbish. A particular creed, maybe.
..but not the underlying basic principle that something that is greater than ourselves is responsible for us being here.

 

[ppp]

One doesn't need facts to believe that there is something responsible for existence.

Obviously. People believed that Zeus is responsible for lightning. People currently believe that aliens are responsible for the pyramids. They don't rely on facts, they just believe for no good reason whatsoever. Just like beliefs in gods

Rubbish. A particular creed, maybe.
..but not the underlying basic principle that something that is greater than ourselves is responsible for us being here.

Not rubbish. That's the way it works. In any case, this is completely and utterly irrelevant. Even if kids did have that sense, there is no indication of that sense is true. You're not bringing up anything that demonstrates that there is a god of any sort.

 

[muhammad_isa]

You're not bringing up anything that demonstrates that there is a god of any sort.

Such as?
Do you think that if I asked G-d for £1000 and told nobody else, and I found £1000 under my pillow in the morning, I would have good reason to believe?

 

[ppp]

Such as?

[shrug]

Do you think that if I asked G-d for £1000 and told nobody else, and I found £1000 under my pillow in the morning, I would have good reason to believe?

No.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'm glad you finally admitted to making errors.

I admitted no such thing. I make errors as we all do but they are not the errors you think they are.
Why would you be glad if I admitted to making errors? What is it to you?.

You must really like the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah.

O SON OF MAN! Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness.

The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Trailblazer]

Are they different?

No.

 

[ppp]

No.

The members of the Manson family were convinced that Manson was a manifestation of Jesus Christ and believed in his prophecies concerning an imminent, apocalyptic race war.

This was a non-faltifiable hypothesis. The heaven's gate and the jonestown massacre are examples of beliefs that could not be falsified. The blood libel against the Jews. The belief that blacks are lesser because they are subject to the curse of Ham. These are all views that can't be falsified. And all of the believers thought that they were advocates of the true and the good. Just as you do.

People who are confident in beliefs that are not demonstrably distinguishable from imagination are scary.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes .. I get that.
..but I do think that many people use that as an excuse not to believe.
They find fault in it, in order to convince themselves and others, that it holds no moral authority, and it is OK to please themselves.

Considering that Jesus supposedly said that to look at a woman with lust is already committing adultery in your heart, I don't think too many people live up to some of the moral standards. A person can reject the Bible and other Holy Books and do as they please. But, when it comes to sexual moral codes, what do believers do when they think it, want it and then do it?

 

[ppp]

Yes .. I get that.
..but I do think that many people use that as an excuse not to believe.
They find fault in it, in order to convince themselves and others, that it holds no moral authority, and it is OK to please themselves.

My rejection Christianity had nothing to do with the morality of Christianity or the factually incorrect claims of the Bible. Neither of those things bothered me when that was Christian, nor was an impediment to my belief.

 

[Trailblazer]

These are all views that can't be falsified. And all of the believers thought that they were advocates of the true and the good. Just as you do.

So what? What do you think that means?
If you have a point to make please make it.